Cloudy Water?

[hannahclementina]

Hi All
 
 
We've been having some real issues with our tank recently. We moved house 2 months ago, and since then, we've noticed the tank water getting cloudy quickly. We'll do a 25% water change, change any relevant filter sponges and it would clear up, but over the past couple of days it has got much worse. 
 
Short of doing a full tank water change, we've tried everything. Taking the filter apart and putting it back together, changing ALL filter sponges, 50% water change, removed all ornaments and thoroughly washed them. We even bought a new filter motor about 4 months ago. Earlier today I found a snail shell stuck in the filter, and removed it thinking that would do the trick (God knows how it got in there!) but 3 hour on, the tank is still as cloudy as anything.

I can't help but feel like we're missing something vital, but short of emptying the whole tank and scrubbing everything clean, I can't think what else to do!
 
Any ideas? 
 
 
We have; 150l Juwel tank, 1 common plec, 1 golden tetra, 2 guppies, 2 leopard danios, 2 zebra danios, 1 kuhli loach, 3 dalmatian balloon mollies. 

 

[Asteria]

Don't change your filter sponges. This has all the good bacteria you need to keep a healthy tank that won't poison your fish.  
If you head into the board named cycling you'll find some useful information there about this more. 
You do not need to change your sponges ever. Unless they are rotting away. Then you should slowly change/add new at a slow rate. 
The cloudiness could be high levels of ammonia. Which is essentially poison to fish. Yet they create it. 
 
If you have a test kit best to test for nitrites. Ammonia. Nitrates. Ph levels. 
If you can't do this. Look into getting a test kit. Preferably liquid kind
Going into a local fish shop and ask if them to test your water is a good place to start

 

[Akasha72]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
 
The clue to this is in the house move I think. I'm guessing that to move the tank you had strip everything out of it? This has in turn caused what is known as a bacterial bloom. Couple this with you saying you've changed some of the filter sponges this tank has now crashed and is cycling over fresh.
 
The best place for you is the 'cycle your tank' section. There are pinned posts there for you to read and learn about the cycling process. The answers to what is happening with this tank will be there. 
 
Meanwhile, the best option for you now is lots of water changes. Because I'm certain this tank is now cycling from new there will be lots of ammonia to come and then nitrite so the water changes will keep that in check and also help to clear the cloudy water. 
 
Do you have a water testing kit? The liquid drop tests are recommended - avoid the dip strips they are really inaccurate. The one most readily available is the API Masterkit. It's very easy to use and accurate. I would recommend you get one if you havn't got one already.
 
I can't go without saying - never change the filter sponges unless they are falling apart. The manufacturers tell you to change them every few months but this is just a ploy to get you spending money. Everytime you change a sponge you throw away vital friendly bacteria that deal with the mess fish create and you then have to cycle the tank again which leaves the fish waste rotting and not being dealt with and then the water becomes toxic and fish get sick.
 
I hope that all makes sense. Good luck with it

 

[hannahclementina]

Thanks for the wisdom, I'll be sending the other half to get a test kit tomorrow!

I'll try and do a water change every other day this week and see if that helps.

Thank you!

 

[Akasha72]

you'll need to do it daily I'm afraid - especially as I suspect that the tank is harbouring ammonia.
 
How are the fish looking? Any sores? Are they layed near the bottom or gasping at the surface? Are they lethargic?
 
I would hold off feeding until you get the test kit and we know for sure what is going on. Fish can go several days without food and so by stopping feeding them for a couple of days there's less mess and ammonia developing in the water

EDIT:
 
I've just seen your list of stock. The common plec needs to either be moved to a larger tank or re-homed. They need a 7-8ft tank as they can grow to around 2 and a half feet in length.

 

[hannahclementina]

He's been in this tank for 8 years and he's full of life and energy (even now!), but the plan is, now we've moved house, to get a larger tank for him.

All of the fish are looking alright really, no sores we've noticed, our mollies are at the top and so are the danios, but I wouldn't really say they're gasping. They're swimming as normal as well, no colour lost in any of them.

 

[Akasha72]

that sounds good. It sounds like if there is ammonia there (and I'm very worried that it is) it's not too severe. 
 
I'm presuming you put back your substrate after you moved the tank? If so then that will be holding some bacteria so will be helping. Have you got any natural plants in the tank? If so they can soak up small amounts of ammonia too.
 
We'll know more tomorrow when you've tested the water. Let us know the results for Ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you are in a soft water area with a low ph in the tank that can convert ammonia to ammonium and ammonium isn't toxic to fish

 

[Pasfur]

Reading this, I'm curious what the "cloudy" water looks like.  Given the fish behavior, it might not be an ammonia issue (although you will know shortly after testing!). Try this... take a glass and scoop some water from the aquarium.  Hold the glass up against a white background and see what color the water is.  Is there a green tint?  Or is the water just fuzzy/cloudy?   

 

[hannahclementina]

Other half took the water to Be tested where we buy our plants, apparently ammonia was sky high bit weird given the fish behaviour but we lost two of our danios overnight they've given us some stuff to put in there to help so fingers crossed.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi again, did they give you the figures at the lfs? It would help us to help you if we know the numbers. 
 
I'm guessing they gave you some kind of bottled bacteria ... can you tell us what it's called? Some are okay, others are less than useless
 
Can I ask ... do you use a water dechlorinator when you do your water changes? 

 

[hannahclementina]

My OH went to Pets at Home to get it done so he doesn't have the numbers, but they told him everything as normal except for the Ammonia. We've got some plants in there and the Ammonio Remover is by Interpet.

We use aqua safe when doing our water changes.
 
If I'm honest, I think what's happened is that the snail shell got stuck in the filter, and then we lost a few of our older fish and didn't notice (at least three of them have just dissapeared), and that's what has made it build up. We're due to test the water again in a few days and we can go from there. 

 

[Akasha72]

okay ... firstly beware of advice from pet@home. In my local store I've heard some serious dodgy advice on a day to day basis and I wouldn't trust them to keep a snail let alone a fish.
 
The snail caught in the filter shouldn't have caused any issue, I find snails in my filter all the time. I'll try to explain simply what has happened as it's actually a little bit complicated.
 
Okay, so by breaking down your tank you have disturbed the good bacteria that lives within a tank. Fish create ammonia all the time, it comes from them breathing and it comes from them wee-ing and poo-ing into the tank. The good bacteria lives mostly in your filter but there is also good bacteria living in your substrate. This good bacteria feeds on the ammonia that the fish create and they then poo out nitrite. Then another form of bacteria forms that feeds on the nitrite and then everything is coverted into nitrate. If you have live plants the plants they use up some of the nitrate as food the remainder needs to be removed and that's why we do water changes so we don't get a build up of nitrate.
When you broke down your tank to move home you disturbed the bacteria - mostly the bacteria in the substrate. You then found yourself with a cloudy tank which is known as a bacterial bloom. It's incredibly common in new set ups and normally settles down after a few days. It can be helped to settle down with water changes if you wish. What you did though was change the filter sponges and by doing that you threw away millions of good bacteria. Now you are in a situation where the fish are still creating ammonia but there isn't enough of the good bacteria to 'eat' it. There also won't be enough of the nitrite eating bacteria either so at some point I'm expecting to see a spike in nitrite too.
 
So we need to form you a plan to stop you losing any more of your fish. Firstly you need to find any dead fish and remove them. Dead and rotting matter in a tank causes ammonia and so by removing it you decrease the ammonia being produced. This includes any dying plant leaves and any uneaten food too.
Next you need to cut feeding right down. The fish won't starve, they can go several days without food. Feed very lightly and remove anything they don't eat within 30 minutes.
Next you need to test the tank water every day, twice a day. If you see a reading for ammonia or nitrite you need to do a water change. I would aim to change 50% - re-testing the tank after the water change to check that you have removed all traces of ammonia and nitrite. If there is still ammonia or nitrite present after the water change then change some more until you zero the readings.
Next you need to ignore the manufacurers instructions about changing filter media. This is just a way to get you to fill their pockets with your hard earned cash. The only time you need to change media is if it's completely falling apart and that can take years to happen.
 
Once you can see that ammonia and nitrite are no longer reading on your water tests and it's zero'd for 7 days you can go back to basic maintenance and enjoying your tank again.
I hope all that makes sense and was a simple explaination. If you have any questions - no matter how stupid or silly you think they are just ask them. We're here to help you and we have nothing to gain other than getting you back on track, the fish healthy and you enjoying the hobby again.
 
Good luck

 

[hannahclementina]

Thanks for the breakdown, it's really useful!

The snail itself was actually caught in the motor for the filter, I genuinely have no idea how it got in there but after it was removed the filter was decidedly more powerful. We're in a town with a fair few tropical fish shops, independent and otherwise so we lays get a second opinion!

As for the tank, it's cleared right up and is (almost!) back to normal looks-wise. My OH has been doing the water testing so I'll have to try and get some figures off him.

Thanks again!

 

[Akasha72]

some figures for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate would be great. It'll give us a picture of whether this is a complete cycle crash or just a mini crash.
 
Happy to help