Cloudy Water.... (Problem Solved)

[Andy-lee]

Hey everyone, i have a juwel 180 and it has been set up around 3 months and is fully cycled with:
180l
Aqua one 1050 external filter
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 15ppm
PH 7.5
24/25 degrees

Also stocked with:
5 mollies
4 guppies
2 swordtails
1 shrimp
1 zebra snail
6 neons
1 bristle nose
1 pearl gourami

It’s planted with around 7 plants 1 moss ball and to sticks with moss on (not sure on the plant names sorry)

So for around the last moth i say it’s been cloudy, cloudy enough that you cannot see the other side of the tank well at all (just a blur) it’s a white cloudy not green so that rules an algae bloom out?!?
i have even done a few large water changes (in-between 10 or 20l ones every other day) of around 80l which clears it up but only for a few days also tried interpet filter aid which after 20mins had the tank crystal clear but my fish started acting strange and gasping at surface or lying on bottom so i quickly did a large water change that would have got the majority of the filter aid out of the water thus becoming cloudy again in a matter of days.

i did lose a Bristle nose inside an ornament around the time it stated to go cloudy but i have removed this ornament and done gravel vacs since alongside the water changes mentioned, i have also removed and replaced the old ornaments so all that is left the same in the tank is the gravel

The tank now...

And how it was with all old stuff in and CLEAR water

Also the fish have been acting strange to in the last week or so, gasping at the surface and flicking and rubbing?? They show no symptoms to disease such as white spot or velvet etc., they all still eat and have an appetite and i have had any deaths yet but something is defiantly up...

Help will be very much appreciated
Thank you for looking
Andy

 

[VaegaVic]

From the looks of it, it would appear something is leaching into your tank if the cloudiness keeps reappearing.

I would personally first do a massive water change, close to 80-95% to remove basically all particles.

If the cloudiness returns, add some filter wool to your external to help trap small particles.

Are you over feeding by any chance?

Were all new ornaments washed and tested in water before going into the tank?

 

[elisew]

I`m no expert, far from it however, even though you have a spraybar (which appears to be quite far under the surface) do you have any surface movement/rippling? I notice you have a couple of airstones? If your fish are gasping at the surface it may well be because there`s not enough oxygen for them.

Just a thought I`m sure that someone else will be along to help you though

 

[Andy-lee]

Thanks for the quick replys
VaegaVic the filter alredy contains wool, would new wool make a diffeance? Although iv alredy cleaned it once to try clear the water but it didnt work as for feeding its only once a day and consists of flakes and a few sinking pelets, all ornaments have been washed both the old ones and the new ones were so they whould be okay? what do you think could be leaching in??

Also yes the spray bar is quite low elisew should it be higher?? i just did it to the pipe lengths lol, theyve only recently started doing it though and correct there is two air stones on 24/7 i though that would be okay, but im far from and expert

Cheers guys

 

[VaegaVic]

Thanks for the quick replys
VaegaVic the filter alredy contains wool, would new wool make a diffeance? Although iv alredy cleaned it once to try clear the water but it didnt work as for feeding its only once a day and consists of flakes and a few sinking pelets, all ornaments have been washed both the old ones and the new ones were so they whould be okay? what do you think could be leaching in??

Also yes the spray bar is quite low elisew should it be higher?? i just did it to the pipe lengths lol, theyve only recently started doing it though and correct there is two air stones on 24/7 i though that would be okay, but im far from and expert

Cheers guys

Adding more wool couldn't hurt, it may slow down the flow a tad but that's not really a concern right now. If everything's washed, then it wouldn't be residue dust particles.

How long are your lights on for a day?
An algal bloom can sometimes start off white and gently turn green.

If a massive water change doesn't help, just add that water-clear chemical back in. It shouldn't really harm the fish at all, they might have just thought it was feeding time when you approached the tank, hence them at the top.

In terms of aeration, perhaps try to move the spray bar higher when added the chems, but this has more to do with dissolved chemicals in the water and oxygen rather than the position of it. The 2 air stones should provide more than enough aeration anyway as they are creating masses of surface agitation to push O2 into the water.

If all else fails, try a black out for a day or 2 to see if this makes a difference, if it is algal, which I doubt but could still be possible, this would confirm it and we can move on from there.

How after do you water changes and gravel cleans?

 

[elisew]

I can`t tell you why the water is so cloudy because to be honest I don`t know and I won`t even begin to pretend that I do.

Whether whatever is causing the cloudiness is contributing to the fish gulping at the surface I really don`t know but it is a possibility. If as VV says there`s something leeching into the water then the oxygen levels could be affected for a start.
It does strike me that with the spray bar being so low there`s going to be an obvious lack of surface movement which creates oxygen for the fish. I`ve always thought that the airstones kind of dissipate any oxygen that may be in the water so it would seem to me that the fish are gulping at the surface due to a lack of oxygen.....does that make sense?

I personally would move the spraybar up so that it causes a good ripplng of the surface and only run the airstones for a couple of hours a day, it`s a start if nothing else. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be able to find an answer for the cloudiness but in the meantime it`d be good to keep up with the regular water changes....just in case

VV is more experienced than I am and the last thing I would want to do is to confuse you further, it`s just my two penneth for what it`s worth

(I was typing this and didn`t see VV`s reply before I posted it)

 

[VaegaVic]

I can`t tell you why the water is so cloudy because to be honest I don`t know and I won`t even begin to pretend that I do.

Whether whatever is causing the cloudiness is contributing to the fish gulping at the surface I really don`t know but it is a possibility. If as VV says there`s something leeching into the water then the oxygen levels could be affected for a start.
It does strike me that with the spray bar being so low there`s going to be an obvious lack of surface movement which creates oxygen for the fish. I`ve always thought that the airstones kind of dissipate any oxygen that may be in the water so it would seem to me that the fish are gulping at the surface due to a lack of oxygen.....does that make sense?

I personally would move the spraybar up so that it causes a good ripplng of the surface and only run the airstones for a couple of hours a day, it`s a start if nothing else. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be able to find an answer for the cloudiness but in the meantime it`d be good to keep up with the regular water changes....just in case

VV is more experienced than I am and the last thing I would want to do is to confuse you further, it`s just my two penneth for what it`s worth

(I was typing this and didn`t see VV`s reply before I posted it)

Absolutely nothing wrong about voicing your own opinions from your own experience, in fact I always welcome it. The more we help each other the better.

The only thing I would disagree on is the air stone issue.
Air stones cause bubbles which "burst" at the surface, as they burst they form mini waves which actually physically push 02 back into the water, imagine tidal waves on a beach if you will.
They don't push 02 into the water simply by being bubbles though, as most people think.

I do agree on everything else though, I personally prefer my spraybar to be the number 1 source of aeration in my tanks.

 

[elisew]

I`m happy to bow to your experience VV

As you say, if it helps others to sort out problems then it`s cool

 

[Andy-lee]

Cheers elisew i will move it up hight tommorow worth a try will look better to

VV the light's are from around 12 mid-day till around 10:30pm, is this to much? Water changes have been 2 buckets (20l) evey few days sice its been cloudy and gravel vac's around every two weeks or so? as for the filter aid they were also sat on the bottom with rapid gill movement, i may try a diffeant brand just to see.
Any ideas on the flicking and rubbing?

Cheers

 

[VaegaVic]

Cheers elisew i will move it up hight tommorow worth a try will look better to

VV the light's are from around 12 mid-day till around 10:30pm, is this to much? Water changes have been 2 buckets (20l) evey few days sice its been cloudy and gravel vac's around every two weeks or so? as for the filter aid they were also sat on the bottom with rapid gill movement, i may try a diffeant brand just to see.
Any ideas on the flicking and rubbing?

Cheers

That shouldn't really be too much, the average recommended rate is about 8-9 hours of light a day, so your 10.5 shouldn't be enough to cause any REAL problems. Although it could be the start of an algal bloom due to it. I would possibly decrease down to 6-7 hours for week to see how you go.


If you're also after a second brand of filter aid, I'd recommend Acu-Clear, works just as well if not better.

Also, 20L is barely over 10% of the tanks volume, not really what would pass as a substantial water change on these forums. We recommend 20% min once a week, I personally do 40-50% every week on all my tanks, but this is besides the point.

Buggered, I'm afraid, we don't know what's causing it so we'll have to rule out one thing at a time. I'd say more wool and lights first, step up water change amount (perhaps do one massive change and then go from there).

Hopefully, if it is algal, we can nip it in the bud.

It could also be bacterial blooms which are caused by left over food and an excess of nutrients in the water column. I would have hoped your plants would be dealing with any nutrients however.

If all else fails, hit it with chemicals.

 

[Andy-lee]

So for startes i will:
Raise the spray bar, to what level??
larage water change (how much, also noob question how do you empty and fill your tanks i syphon water out into buckets and fill with buckets> surely there is an easyer way?)
possibly filter aid .
reduce light.
and try and get hold or some more filter wool and have two lots in.

Thank you so much for the help given guys hopefully i will have clear water again soon

 

[VaegaVic]

So for startes i will:
Raise the spray bar, to what level??
larage water change (how much, also noob question how do you empty and fill your tanks i syphon water out into buckets and fill with buckets> surely there is an easyer way?)
possibly filter aid .
reduce light.
and try and get hold or some more filter wool and have two lots in.

Thank you so much for the help given guys hopefully i will have clear water again soon

Raise the spray bar so it physically pushes water around the surface. If you dropped food in, it would go around and around until eaten. It's up to you how loud you want it, if you want a waterfall go for it, but most of us just keep it so every now and then there's a slight "blop" of water so we know it's working

I personally syphon my water out, doing sand cleans at the same time. I then pour all the water down the toilet or in summer I use it to water the garden as it's very rich in nitrogenous waste (plant food). I then place each bucket in my shower (used to be bath under bathroom renovation), adding dechlorinator before hand (tapsafe to some people). I carry the water back into the tanks room, pour it in individually using a large jug.

However, I do get bored of doing so. You can find things like "Pythons" to help with your water changes, which in your position is probably something worth looking into. There's a DIY guide in the DIY section on how to make your own as we can't find them here in the UK.

You could also use a small pond pump and tubing to pump the water back into your tank.

I'd personally do the Python route for your size tank.

http/www.fishforum...769-diy-python/

If there's anything else we can do for you, just let us know.

 

[Andy-lee]

Cheers VV you've been a great help. Just one more small question for now, if i was to do a large water change 90% or so where woild be a sutable place to keep all of the fish, i assume i couldnt leave them on the tank at that low of a leavel?
Cheers

 

[VaegaVic]

Cheers VV you've been a great help. Just one more small question for now, if i was to do a large water change 90% or so where woild be a sutable place to keep all of the fish, i assume i couldnt leave them on the tank at that low of a leavel?
Cheers

It would only be temporary, so indeed you could.

Just make sure they can still swim, I like to leave a minimum of 3-5 fish height between the gravel and minimum water level.

If you want to do a 100%, you can buy cheap containers from supermarkets, like Tesco, for around £8 which holds 60L or so, great for temporary storage of fish.

Hope this helps!
Good luck!

 

[SlyPolak]

You sure you dont have ANYTHING dead/rotting in the tank in ornaments or filter.... it looks like a bacterial bloom to me.... slow down with feeding... feed every-other day for a week or so and see if theres a difference... dont worry your fishies will live... maybe the pellets you feed disintergrate and just go bad in the gravel??