Cloudy Tank

shortymet55

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I've had a cloudy tank for a long time. I did a 100% water change once because of it, and it helped, but eventually it got coudy again. I cant do 100% water changes very often. I dont know the issue. I do water changes. I did 50% today, and by the time the crap settled, the tank looked like it did before the water change. Ive tried "crystal clear" and it did nothing. I dont think bacteria blooms last for months? What is going on? Its a 10 gallon tank with 4 rasboras, 3 cardinal tetras, 2 swordtail, algae eater. Water quality is good. Any ideas.
 
I would advise against doing 100% water changes since these will harm the beneficial bacteria in the tanks filter and only prolong the tanks journey to becoming established. Bacterial blooms are not uncommon in tank set ups which are still establishing themselves, the best way to get your fish through the bloom is to simply do small regular water changes (like 15-20% per day) and to increase the aeration in the tank. What stats are you testing the tanks water for exactly and what results are you getting back?
This thread below may be of some interest (i wrote a great deal on water quality in tanks and also dealing with bacterial blooms etc);

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2033666

:thumbs: .
 
in your stiocking what is the algae eater?

and a tank that goes cloudy is a bacterial bloom usually ammonia is there and is extremely lethal!!

what are your water stats ammonia, nitrite, nitrate , ph.

DO NOT EVER DO 100% WATER CHANGES!!
10% weekly is the most you should in normal conditions.

this is just going to get rid of any bacteria you have and is basically back at the start of the nitrogen cycle, this may take a acouple of weeks to fix.

before going any further your water stats are needed.
 
Phoenix- I ran the filter on a bucket during the 100% water change, to keep the bacteria in the filter at least. Actually after that for months it was crystal clear, it just happened to get cloudy suddenly.

Im going to keep doing small water changes I guess, and I do have an air pump running. I tested for ammonia and nitrites

Two days ago
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0

Yesterday
Ammonia- 1
Nitrite-0

I think the sudden spike was because i feed my fish frozen brine shrimp for the first time in a longgggg time, so i forgot how much to put in and I put in way to much. I did fish as much out as i could and did a gravel siphoning yesterday.

Rocknurworld- The algae eater is a chinese algae eater. Hes going soon, because I got him when i didnt know much about fish keeping and he was small then. But new home soon. Being replaced with ottos and shrimp.
I dont see how it could be a bacterial bloom, because I had 0 ammonia and nitrite for a long time.

THanks both of you!
 
I had the same problem in the past, cloudy water, did change and got cloudy again.

Here is what cured it:

1. Put your water and fish in a temporary bucket or bin.

2. Remove your gravel and rinse/clean it very well.

3. Rinse out the bottom of your tank.

4. Refill with new water and put fish back.

The problem (at least with mine was excess buildup of debris in the gravel and bottom of the tank)
 
I had the same problem in the past, cloudy water, did change and got cloudy again.

Here is what cured it:

1. Put your water and fish in a temporary bucket or bin.

2. Remove your gravel and rinse/clean it very well.

3. Rinse out the bottom of your tank.

4. Refill with new water and put fish back.

The problem (at least with mine was excess buildup of debris in the gravel and bottom of the tank)
This response makes a lot of sense to me. I agree.
 
I had the same problem in the past, cloudy water, did change and got cloudy again.

Here is what cured it:

1. Put your water and fish in a temporary bucket or bin.

2. Remove your gravel and rinse/clean it very well.

3. Rinse out the bottom of your tank.

4. Refill with new water and put fish back.

The problem (at least with mine was excess buildup of debris in the gravel and bottom of the tank)
This response makes a lot of sense to me. I agree.


I dont understand the theory that water changes are bad because they can get rid of bacteria. As far as I know...Both from reading and my (limited newbie) experience...it makes no sense to me. I was understanding the cycling to mean we were cycling the filters...not the tanks. Meaning, If I pulled my filters out of my existing tanks, and transferred them to a brand new tank set up...the new tank still be cycled immediately because the bacteria majority is in the filters...NOT in the water and only minimally on the gravel/decorations.

Im actually just finishing my first ever fishless cycle and I've had to change out my water (about 90% on a couple of occasions) due to PH and hardness issues. Its actually HELPED my cycle..not harmed it at all.
 
Thats basically what i did with my 100% water change. I took the gravel out and cleaned it. What are ways to prevent the build up that cuased the cloudiness. My only thoughts are doing a better job getting the siphoning tube in the smaller areas I usually cant reach. But then my plants come up and It takes forever to put them back. Any suggestions?
 
I would advise against doing 100% water changes since these will harm the beneficial bacteria in the tanks filter

So long as the filter media are kept damp and the new water is the same temperature and pH as the old water, how will it affect the beneficial bacteria which are cultured to live in the filter media?

DO NOT EVER DO 100% WATER CHANGES!!
10% weekly is the most you should in normal conditions.

Really? Damn, I better go tell Skifletch he is an irresponsible reef-keeper for advocating 100% changes. And that Tolak, despite breeding many hundreds (thousands) of angelfish he regularly changes 50-80% of fish, maybe I should advise him he is doing it wrong. And bignose, he says 100% can be done. Pretty sure CFC needs to be corrected on this too.

Orrr, maybe, just maybe, 10% is an arbitrary amount you have fixed on which is roughly 10% of the maximum that can be done (as in, 100%). So long as th pH and temperature of the new water is the same as the old, you can change as much as you want. Obviously one has to be careful to keep filter media wet and place the fish elsewhere, but 100% is very do-able without major issues.
 
Hi
What is the volume of your tank?
What filter have you got?
Do you use any bacteria products ? How often?
What fishes have you stoked?
Then it will be easier to answer!
 
I have been doing my homework on bacterial blooms recently, so maybe i can help (not homework literally, i have left school :lol: ).

There are 2 types of bacteria at work in our tanks:-

Autotrophic Bacteria - Bacteria capable of synthesizing its own food from inorganic substances, using light or chemical energy. Our beneficial filter bacteria are autotrophs.

Heterotrophic Bacteria - Bacteria that cannot synthesize its own food and is dependent on complex organic substances for nutrition. The heterotrophs in our aquariums mineralise the organic waste (break down the uneaten food, fish waste, dead plant matter etc into ammonia).

Contrary to popular belief, it is commonly the heterotrophs which are seen in our bacterial blooms, not our trusted autotroph nitrifiers.

It is the heterotrophs which are responsible for creating the "bio-film" (slimy residue found on the tank walls and ornaments)which builds up in our aquariums.

The heterotrophs are generally bigger than the autotrophs and therefore don't attach themselves to surfaces with the same ease. They also reproduce much more quickly. Heterotrophs can reproduce in around 15 - 20 minutes, whereas autotrophs can take up to 24 hours to reproduce.

In a newly set-up aquarium, the heterotrophs get to work quicker than the autotrophs, causing the 'cycling bloom' we so often see. Poconoboss, i would place money on it that your bloom was heterotrophic as it seemed to be caused by the build up of organic waste in the substrate.

Our autotroph nitrifiers are strictly aerobic (require oxygen), but the heterotrophs can be facultative anaerobic (they can switch between aerobic and anaerobic function depending on their environment). Therefore the heterotrophs in the substrate will be in their anaerobic state and breaking down the organic waste into ammonia, but if they bloom up into the water column, they will switch to their aerobic form and will start to convert the ammonia back to nitrite, although very inefficiently. The heterotrophs are around 1,000,000 times less efficient at ammonia oxidisation than our beneficial autotrophs as the heterotrophs are not true nitrifiers.

Most of the bacteria in the aquarium are aerobic as it is a oxygen dominated environment, and these bacteria require lots of oxygen. When the heterotrophic bacteria bloom into the water column and switch to their aerobic state, this is a big drain on the oxygen content of the water. Oxygen depravation is the only risk to the fish which i am aware of during a bacterial bloom, as the heterotrophs themselves are harmless to fish. Tokis, good advice to increase aeration! :good:

Shortymet, i hope i have helped you to understand why your bacterial bloom occurred. Your apparent overfeeding caused a sharp rise in the reproduction of the heterotrophs in order to start breaking down the uneaten food, and this caused your bacterial bloom. As the ammonia production increases due to the increased mineralisation, the nitrifiers are slow to catch up (as i said above) and so you see an ammonia spike until the autotrophs reproduce enough to take care of it. Contrary to popular belief, your bacterial bloom caused your ammonia spike, not the other way around.

I would suggest that a thorough gravel vac will certainly help the situation, as will adding live plants. Also, try not to overfeed. Water changes will probably not clear the cloudiness as when you remove the free-floating bacteria, the others reproduce more to compensate. Reducing the amount of organic waste in your tank is the ultimate solution to ridding your tank of its cloudiness.

I am uncertain whether the nitrifiers ever bloom into the water column or if they simply multiply too slowly to cause this effect.

With regard to the water changes, i agree with Andywg. To say that 10% weekly is the maximum water change recommended is no more than a fishkeeping myth. So long as the replacement water is of a similar composition to the water removed, the bacteria will take water changes in their stride, even at 100%.

Also, other than in the situation of a bacterial bloom, a water change will remove virtually no bacteria from the tank at all as 99% of the nitrifiers are housed in the filter, not in the water column. Even during a bacterial bloom, it will be heterotrophs which are removed via water change, which will have no effect on the cycle.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :good:

BTT
 
ok, so if i do a small gravel vac everyday, then I should see some changes, as the less junk i have, the less junk the blooming bacteria can feed off of, so they die? Backtotropical, thank you very much. Very informative. I really appreciate your help.
 
Yes shortymet55, BTT is giving the case for why water changes with gravel cleanings would basically be helpful for bacterial blooms, but in answer to your question, bacterial blooms will eventually always go away by themselves and as a tank gets more stable will almost never return, given normal good maintenance. They are very normal during startup periods.

BTT! Tour de force there! You really did your homework. I especially found the bit about facultative anaerobics to be quite fascinating - have never read about these before! You must really come fly over and we'll take a bacteriology course together!

Excellent to keep it focused on autotrophs vs. heterotrophs. I think all too often the presence of the heterotrophs in our aquarium water is overlooked.

Our autotrophs, including the two good species we want in our filters, can be even further delineated as "chemolithoautotrophs." They are chemo because they derive energy from oxidizing inorganic compounds (the energy in the chemical bonds) as opposed to the phototrophs which use light for energy. Then they are called litho, a subset of the chemoautotrophs, which is my favorite, it means literally "eaters of rock" -- I mean its really cool, these are among the little guys down at the bottom of the food chain that are "eating rock" and eventually providing us with food! Technically, the litho is about using inorganic substrates in the process of "chemo" energy usage.

~~waterdrop~~
 

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