Cloning A Tank

[SouthernCross]

Hi everyone

I've got a just-shy-of 5 gallon tank that I had intended for a hospital tank but I'm going to use it as a betta tank instead. It's got an in-hood type filter, so I can't just run it on my 39 gallon community tank which has been cycled for several weeks now. So I came up with the following suggestion, but I'm not sure if it's enough for a successful clone - please tell me what you think!

My community runs on both a UGF and an Aquaclear 50 HOB. In the HOB, instead of using carbon I put in a second sponge. The tank is understocked at the moment (haven't gotten more fish since my first lot yet) with only 5 fish and a snail - platies and bronze cories. In the new little tank, the filter media is some plastic hollow/ridged balls (guess they're supposed to be bio balls) and a compartment for floss. The floss is shaped in the way that it lines the edges and bottom of the compartment, with a hole in the middle that the provided bag of carbon fits into (which I'm going to ditch).

Now here's my suggestion:
My community gravel should have a load of bacteria in it since it is part of the UGF. So I was going to stick a large handful of that in. Was also going to take some cuttings from my plants and transfer them, although these will probably have only minimal bacteria. I was then going to take out one of my HOB sponges and cut it in half (the thing is stuffed probably a bit too tight and full with two whole ones + biomedia anyway) and put the half into the space in the filter floss (where the carbon fit) in the new tank. Would this be sufficient to clone the tank and avoid a cycle?

Stocking the new tank - One betta and a trio of smaller-type cories
The people in the betta forum told me not to fret too much about making sure the tank was 100% cycled since bettas produce such little waste anyway, it would be fine as long as I kept on top of water changes - a lot of people keep bettas in uncycled tanks with weekly 100% changes anyway. Now, after thinking about it, I was going to wait until I KNEW the tank was cycled with the betta before adding my cories (delicate little fellas). But now I'm wondering if I should add them the same time as I add all this media since if the betta produces so little, if I have excess bacteria (not sure if I will with the amount of media I'm adding) for the betta it will die back anyway, and when I eventually added the cories it would cause a mini-cycle since it is only used to the minimal betta waste. I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain here, but my question is should I add only the betta then wait to add cories, or should I add them all at once provided this is enough media?

And also some extra questions about the mechanics of this:
Will the piece of sponge in the centre of the floss create any flow troubles? Like will the water just flow around it and through the floss if it's less dense than the sponge or should it go through both fine? Or should I forget the sponge and just fill it with extra floss (which will be uncolonised)?

I'd appreciate any input you guys could offer whether this would be successful or not. I'd love to avoid the dreary slow cycling process if I can!

 

[SouthernCross]

*Bumping*

Anyone?

 

[SouthernCross]

45 views and still nothing? Surely someone knows something?

 

[smmetz]

Hi everyone

I've got a just-shy-of 5 gallon tank that I had intended for a hospital tank but I'm going to use it as a betta tank instead. It's got an in-hood type filter, so I can't just run it on my 39 gallon community tank which has been cycled for several weeks now. So I came up with the following suggestion, but I'm not sure if it's enough for a successful clone - please tell me what you think!



My community runs on both a UGF and an Aquaclear 50 HOB. In the HOB, instead of using carbon I put in a second sponge. The tank is understocked at the moment (haven't gotten more fish since my first lot yet) with only 5 fish and a snail - platies and bronze cories. In the new little tank, the filter media is some plastic hollow/ridged balls (guess they're supposed to be bio balls) and a compartment for floss. The floss is shaped in the way that it lines the edges and bottom of the compartment, with a hole in the middle that the provided bag of carbon fits into (which I'm going to ditch).

Now here's my suggestion:
My community gravel should have a load of bacteria in it since it is part of the UGF. So I was going to stick a large handful of that in. Was also going to take some cuttings from my plants and transfer them, although these will probably have only minimal bacteria. I was then going to take out one of my HOB sponges and cut it in half (the thing is stuffed probably a bit too tight and full with two whole ones + biomedia anyway) and put the half into the space in the filter floss (where the carbon fit) in the new tank. Would this be sufficient to clone the tank and avoid a cycle?

Stocking the new tank - One betta and a trio of smaller-type cories
The people in the betta forum told me not to fret too much about making sure the tank was 100% cycled since bettas produce such little waste anyway, it would be fine as long as I kept on top of water changes - a lot of people keep bettas in uncycled tanks with weekly 100% changes anyway. Now, after thinking about it, I was going to wait until I KNEW the tank was cycled with the betta before adding my cories (delicate little fellas). But now I'm wondering if I should add them the same time as I add all this media since if the betta produces so little, if I have excess bacteria (not sure if I will with the amount of media I'm adding) for the betta it will die back anyway, and when I eventually added the cories it would cause a mini-cycle since it is only used to the minimal betta waste. I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain here, but my question is should I add only the betta then wait to add cories, or should I add them all at once provided this is enough media?

And also some extra questions about the mechanics of this:
Will the piece of sponge in the centre of the floss create any flow troubles? Like will the water just flow around it and through the floss if it's less dense than the sponge or should it go through both fine? Or should I forget the sponge and just fill it with extra floss (which will be uncolonised)?

I'd appreciate any input you guys could offer whether this would be successful or not. I'd love to avoid the dreary slow cycling process if I can!

I would just do the sponge part of your plan - cut one of the AC 50 sponges in half and put that where the carbon would fit in your 5 gallon filter. That should be enough IMO to get your 5 gallon tank started. Rinse it out gently in old tank water so that the water in the 5 gallon can flow through it.

Whatever you decided to use from your larger tank, do not put it in the 5 gallon filter until you have a fish in the 5 gallon tank. (unless you plan to add drops of amonia) You need a source of amonia (like a fish) to feed the bacteria, or that bacteria will die off.

Just my opinion, but I would put just the betta in the 5 gallon for a few weeks, then add the corries after the tank has been cycled for a while. I never had corries, but heard they are delicate also, and I have heard that there is somehow a difference between a cycled tank and a "mature" tank. A mature tank supposed to be more stable than a recently cycled tank. I don't know if it is true or if it is just that recently cycled tanks are often someone's first tank, and people usually make some mistakes when they are starting out with aquariums.

When you do add the corries, I would just add 1 at a time, wait 3-4 days, then add another, etc. This way the bio-load will not increase as much at one time, and you should be fine.

Good luck!

 

[SouthernCross]

Yay a response! Thankyou so much! smmetz!

I'm glad this is going to work. I was really bad at cycling my main tank (tried fishless, thought it was ready, put fish in BOOM it went into cycling again ) This saves me stuffing it up again!

I would just do the sponge part of your plan - cut one of the AC 50 sponges in half and put that where the carbon would fit in your 5 gallon filter. That should be enough IMO to get your 5 gallon tank started. Rinse it out gently in old tank water so that the water in the 5 gallon can flow through it.

I'll definitely do the half-sponge thing. I will throw some gravel in too - it can't hurt. Was thinking too - is it worthwhile putting my filter floss from the 5 gallon into a stocking or something and sitting it in the main tank? Like weight it down on the gravel? Or will the bacteria from the half-sponge colonise it quickly once its in the 5 gal anyway? I guess alternatively I could squeeze some gunk from the other sponge over the floss too. I think I read a rec from Tolak on a cloning thread to do that for new media...

Whatever you decided to use from your larger tank, do not put it in the 5 gallon filter until you have a fish in the 5 gallon tank. (unless you plan to add drops of amonia) You need a source of amonia (like a fish) to feed the bacteria, or that bacteria will die off.

Yep, I wasn't planning to go transferring things over until I brought the fish home.

Just my opinion, but I would put just the betta in the 5 gallon for a few weeks, then add the corries after the tank has been cycled for a while. I never had corries, but heard they are delicate also, and I have heard that there is somehow a difference between a cycled tank and a "mature" tank. A mature tank supposed to be more stable than a recently cycled tank. I don't know if it is true or if it is just that recently cycled tanks are often someone's first tank, and people usually make some mistakes when they are starting out with aquariums.
When you do add the corries, I would just add 1 at a time, wait 3-4 days, then add another, etc. This way the bio-load will not increase as much at one time, and you should be fine.

I'm still a bit worried about mini-cycles with the cories since bettas produce so little. Although cories don't produce much themselves. If I go with your suggestion, I could bring all 3 home, they could hang out in my community until I slowly transfer them all over. About the cycled Vs mature - I might actually go make a post in the corydoras forum - see what the cory experts say about this scenario...

Thanks again for your reply