Interesting. You can’t argue with success. Were your nitrate levels very low without water changes or were your fish accustomed to nitrates.
Changing water in smaller increments
- Thread starter squirley
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TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Plants matter in a tank. For one they eat ammonium and then do not make nitrite, Then if there is an nitrate they eat that since we cannot feed ammonia to them. Finally, plants host bacteria, including the nitrifiers and some of them actually oxygenate parts of the anaerobic zonzes where their roots are with the goal of creating nitrifying pockets which require oxygen. Some plants will transport O down to their roots and then release it. Research has shown, in such cases, that denitrifying zones form above and below the new plant created aerobic areas.
Next, Set up a 150 gal tank and then add 15 or 20 cardinal or neon tetras. How much waste can they make? Plant this tank decently and you have excellent filtration. However, if you never change any water you will sooner or later, kill the fish. Water evaportates, most waste matter does not. Some things are going to accumulate until they hit harmful evels. There is no such thing as a self sustaining ecosystem. Sooner or later, with enough time, they will all fail. This even includes the universe.
Sorry, but there is just no such thing as a perpetual montion machine........
Next, Set up a 150 gal tank and then add 15 or 20 cardinal or neon tetras. How much waste can they make? Plant this tank decently and you have excellent filtration. However, if you never change any water you will sooner or later, kill the fish. Water evaportates, most waste matter does not. Some things are going to accumulate until they hit harmful evels. There is no such thing as a self sustaining ecosystem. Sooner or later, with enough time, they will all fail. This even includes the universe.
Sorry, but there is just no such thing as a perpetual montion machine........
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There is a difference between the effects of filtration and water changes.
Someone once calculated how large the surface area needed for nitrifying bacteria must be. It is not as large as one might think. The surfaces inside a tank are completely sufficient to maintain the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle.
Then you need a solution to remove or use the nitrate – plants are suitable for this, or water changes.
A water change also supplies the aquarium with new nutrients and important substances. That's why I think natural food and botanicals to be important.
What about harmful germs? A water change will reduce them, but they multiply very quickly again. I would do big water changes in case of sick fish once in the main tank and then proceed in a quarantine tank.
I did some water changes over that time, maybe one every year in average. Sometimes there were two, three or more without any change.
Someone once calculated how large the surface area needed for nitrifying bacteria must be. It is not as large as one might think. The surfaces inside a tank are completely sufficient to maintain the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle.
Then you need a solution to remove or use the nitrate – plants are suitable for this, or water changes.
A water change also supplies the aquarium with new nutrients and important substances. That's why I think natural food and botanicals to be important.
What about harmful germs? A water change will reduce them, but they multiply very quickly again. I would do big water changes in case of sick fish once in the main tank and then proceed in a quarantine tank.
You won't be able to come near this ...
Word! And I think we should accept that there are some species that should not be kept in an Aquarium.
Almost twenty years, with Guppys - that mean 100, 200 maybe more fish. And this was not the only tank I treat this way. Others fail just to keep up an unmanaged group of fish over that time.
I did some water changes over that time, maybe one every year in average. Sometimes there were two, three or more without any change.
Of course not - energy in form of light, food, plant matter ... goes in the system. And I remove plants when they grow too big.
What kind of things, substances? I think the mulm buffers a lot. The flakes are a compound of detritus, bacteria, funghi and so on. They can immobilise a lot of otherwise harmful substances.
I typically have lots of plants but I also overstock, so I try to do 50% twice per week in my 75 gallon.
The other tanks I do once or twice a week- about the same ratio- the fish seem fine with it. I am paranoid about keeping the water clean, so I probably overdo it, but I haven't found that it hurts.
I think in tanks with lots of plants and medium or low stocking levels, the water changes can be much less- also, if you do the Walstead or Father Fish thing you can go without. I like to mess with stuff too much to do a "set and forget" tank. Maybe later when I'm lazier about it... nice to have options...
The other tanks I do once or twice a week- about the same ratio- the fish seem fine with it. I am paranoid about keeping the water clean, so I probably overdo it, but I haven't found that it hurts.
I think in tanks with lots of plants and medium or low stocking levels, the water changes can be much less- also, if you do the Walstead or Father Fish thing you can go without. I like to mess with stuff too much to do a "set and forget" tank. Maybe later when I'm lazier about it... nice to have options...
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
There is a difference between the lifespan of fish in a clean water and those in not so clean water. How many of you 200 guppys outlived their expected lifespan? My bet is most of us have no idea how long any species kept in a porper tank should live.
My belief, which could be wrong, is that fish in a tank when the params etc, are all OK, the food is properly nutricious and there are no predators will live longer on average than the same species will in the wild.
Also, some species are hardier than others. Believe it or not when I found myself pressed for time for any reason and could nopt do regular water changes meaning I had to skip some tanks, I always chose my very expensive Hypancistrus plecos to skip. The reason was simple. In the wild they go through seasonal changes where parameters can degrade and recover rapidly. These fish were adapted to surviving the seasonal changes.
I cannot vouch for this site, but is says the following on A-Z Animals regarding guppy lifespans.
Most interesting from the above to me was this:
My belief, which could be wrong, is that fish in a tank when the params etc, are all OK, the food is properly nutricious and there are no predators will live longer on average than the same species will in the wild.
Also, some species are hardier than others. Believe it or not when I found myself pressed for time for any reason and could nopt do regular water changes meaning I had to skip some tanks, I always chose my very expensive Hypancistrus plecos to skip. The reason was simple. In the wild they go through seasonal changes where parameters can degrade and recover rapidly. These fish were adapted to surviving the seasonal changes.
I cannot vouch for this site, but is says the following on A-Z Animals regarding guppy lifespans.
from https://a-z-animals.com/blog/guppy-lifespan-how-long-do-guppies-live/How Long Do Guppies Live?
Guppies live an average of 2 to 3 years.
©Arunee Rodloy/Shutterstock.com
In the wild, guppies live an average of 2 years. However, in captivity guppies can live anywhere between 2-5 years. Although the average is typically 2-3 years in captivity, if properly cared for, guppies have been known to live up to 5 years.
Most interesting from the above to me was this:
Agree!
Impossible to say. But in another tank that has been running for 15 years without regular water changes, there are six Pseudomugil gertrudae. Some sources (e.g. seriouslyfish) say that they are more like annual fish and that the females are no longer fertile after a lifespan of 12 to 18 months. I got this species almost four years ago and shortly afterwards found some fry in a bucket with plant cuttings. These are the 6 specimens that are still alive. You can see that they are really old, especially the females, which are thin and hunched, but the males are still courting. They definitely (out)live their expected livespan.
I do have to add something. We stopped for gas in Gabon. There was a channel 6 inches wide and deep, carrying wastewater from the gas station to the ditch. One of my colleagues saw movement, reached in through grating, moved a potato chip bag and came up with a robust, gravid female guppy. She was radiantly healthy. They were stupidly released into the environment there in the 1960s, to eat mosquitoes, and they hang on.
But they are survivor fish, and if a guppy lives to 99, after seeing them thrive in that habitat, they aren't a great argument! I had them thriving in my childhood - dozens in a 45 gallon with no water changes. They bred and grew and persisted.
Tanichthys albonubes* (~15 years), T. albiventris *, Danio margaritatus* (~ 15 years), Boraras naevus, Trichopsis pumila, Phenacogrammus aurantiacus, Synodontis nigriventris, Anomalochromis thomasi*, Pseudomugil gertrudae*, Makropodus spechti, Oryzias latipes*, Pangio cuneovirgata, ... thats my current stock. There were of course some other species over time.
A service to pick up survivors ;-)
*this species rise young without or with little intervention
They do not all live in tanks with no water changes, but I don't do water changes on a weekly basis.
Nothing goes in my tank that cannot cracked down and reassembled naturally; there are no substances than can aggregate to a poisonos amount. You cycle your tanks too and that does really work ;-)
But as mentioned - one have to research and deside for every species individually.
A service to pick up survivors ;-)
*this species rise young without or with little intervention
They do not all live in tanks with no water changes, but I don't do water changes on a weekly basis.
Nothing goes in my tank that cannot cracked down and reassembled naturally; there are no substances than can aggregate to a poisonos amount. You cycle your tanks too and that does really work ;-)
But as mentioned - one have to research and deside for every species individually.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Many live bearers seem to have that ability. Maybe it is evolution. Over time where they were living forced them to evolve to be able to survive in poorer conditions. I think "mother natures" considers survival of a species to be a very important consideration in how if evolves. Live earing was a way to do this I believe. It is also why the fish can spawn so soon after being born and how often they can spawn.
How many species have females which can store the male's sperm and then have multiple more spawns down the road without needing another encounter? To me, almost everything about live bearer physiology and biology argues that this is why.
I would suggest the same thing to a certain extent with the labyrinth fish and other fish which can gulp air at the surface when they need to.
But here is one thing I do know. I have never heard nor read that fish were killed because their water was too clean. By clean I do not mean pure, I mean lacking in harmful substances. I have a private well. I can fill tanks with a hose attached to the faucet in a sink in some places. However, I tend to fill big cans and pump the new water back in. I like to aerate it well beforehand. In a few tanks I add things to the water to make up for deficiencies do to the invert and plant load in addition to the fish. My water is softish and neutral pH.
I also add fertilizers and Flourish Excel to almost all my planted tanks after water changes. I do not use dechlor in my tanks. I do not need it. I have had or still have fish which have been in my tanks for over 20 years. So, I think I will keep on doing regular larger water changes. You kown what they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
How many species have females which can store the male's sperm and then have multiple more spawns down the road without needing another encounter? To me, almost everything about live bearer physiology and biology argues that this is why.
I would suggest the same thing to a certain extent with the labyrinth fish and other fish which can gulp air at the surface when they need to.
But here is one thing I do know. I have never heard nor read that fish were killed because their water was too clean. By clean I do not mean pure, I mean lacking in harmful substances. I have a private well. I can fill tanks with a hose attached to the faucet in a sink in some places. However, I tend to fill big cans and pump the new water back in. I like to aerate it well beforehand. In a few tanks I add things to the water to make up for deficiencies do to the invert and plant load in addition to the fish. My water is softish and neutral pH.
I also add fertilizers and Flourish Excel to almost all my planted tanks after water changes. I do not use dechlor in my tanks. I do not need it. I have had or still have fish which have been in my tanks for over 20 years. So, I think I will keep on doing regular larger water changes. You kown what they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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