Cardinals Or Neons?

[DrSlackBladder]

I'm just about ready to add my intended small school (around 8) of either neons or cardinals to my community tank. But I still can't decide......I know the differences between them; cardinals having the full length red stripe, tend to be larger as adults, etc - but I read conflicting reports about which are more robust. This is my first tropical tank, with no losses so far, so I don't want to make things hard for myself at this stage! What is the general consensus? My water pH is around 7.5, medium hard, temp 25-26C. 100 litre, few silk plants, few small rocks, bogwood, 6 corys, 6 white skirt tetras, 2 platys and 2 Amano shrimp.

 

[fluttermoth]

Cardinals tend to be hardier than neons, these days.

 

[Mikey1]

but I read conflicting reports about which are more robust.

both equal, no difference

 

[Chad]

Cardinals tend to be hardier than neons, these days.

I agree. Cardinals would be my choice.

 

[DrSlackBladder]

Cardinals it is then. But I have a question. All reputable sites and forums recommend adding cardinals only to a well established aquarium. Assuming fully cycled filter media, excellent water quality, good filtration and aeration, stable pH and a happy healthy community, why does the length of time that the tank has been running matter? Everything I've just mentioned is good in my tank, but it has only been running 3 months; fully cycled with fish for two. Is it too early for cardinals? If so, why, if everything is good? Thanks for any advice!

 

[Chad]

That is somewhat a matter of opinion on both counts. First I consider a "well established" aquarium to be one that is a year old or more. But...I think adding cardinals to a tank that is 6 months old is just fine. If you are an experienced aquarist it can be done sooner.

 

[fluttermoth]

The length of time is to do with having a 'mature' tank. The reason for the difference is, I think, unknown, but seems to be to do with the development of a robust 'biofilm'; that's a layer of mixed bacteria and microorganisms that forms in mature systems.

I've never kept cardinals, but I do know that green neons do very poorly in new tanks; I used to quarantine mine in a small tank set up with mature media and decor, plants and substrate, and they never did well and I always lost a few, even though I never saw any trace of ammonia or nitrite.

 

[Mikey1]

All reputable sites and forums recommend adding cardinals only to a well established aquarium.

this can be said about any fish....not just cardinals

 

[Chad]

That's true. We start keeping water before we keep fish. If the water we keep isn't kept well then it won't be ready for the fish. That goes beyond just the cycle, that's only part of keeping water.

It's a philosophical outlook but I think it's a a good perspective to have...sort of the zen of fishkeeping.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I consider myself as much a bacterial culturist as I do a fishkeeper... its just one description will get you funny looks and the other won't. ;-)


To answer the question DrSlackBladder... there are very complex systems going on in the tank, many of which are still not fully understood by aquarists. Suffice it to say that we are only measuring (and at this point capable of measuring) a small fraction of the elements that are necessary to understand how well our tank is actually doing. There are a lot of things, like the biofilm fluttermoth described that can't be rushed, as well as some other factors that are currently undiscovered that are just as essential to fishkeeping as the biological filter that requires a bit of time to develop. Hardier fish seem unaffected in a newly set-up and recently cycled tank, but we can't be sure that they aren't also being adversely affected by these unknown factors. More sensitive fish, like cardinal tetra, german blue rams, etc. die unexpectedly and for seemingly no reason according to our current ability to measure things. But, that doesn't mean that we are seeing the full picture. Just remain patient and spend the time enjoying your new tank, searching for a reputable source for cardinals. Then make them an Easter present to yourself. ;-)

You can also spend the time looking into the planted side of aquaculture for an added diversion. Cardinals appreciate a well-planted tank. ;-) Waiting another 3-6 months to add the cardinals will give you plenty of time to work on your "green thumb". Not to mention that the live plants add a lot of dimension to the tank that fake plants just can't.

 

[DrSlackBladder]

Thanks eaglesaquarium; understood that not everything is understood yet. I am a scientist, so look for answers to everything, but accept that some just aren't known yet. I'm doing exactly as you suggest; enjoying my tank, feeling proud that I got through cycling without loosing anything, and proud that my inhabitants to date are happy and healthy (love the shrimps, fascinating little things!), playing with different aquascape ideas, looking for the best source of cardinals for a few months time (know identified, a local tropical fish importer with a great reputation, and making live plants my "development project" for now.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Scientist, eh? Can you be a bit more specific? I'm a physics teacher. Good to have a few more of us in the hobby.

It's hard to know the background of folks on the forum, so I think that stating the "obvious" at times can be beneficial for those who may just be lurking but not actively engaging, or even those that may do a search months/years from now.

 

[DrSlackBladder]

Bachelors and Masters in Materials Engineering, Doctorate in Composite Materials Research, Chartered Engineer, Technical Fellow with Cytec Aerospace for 15 years........!

 

[Chad]

Hmmm...so...you could develop a material for lighter fish stands for large tanks...put that knowledge where it would do some real good.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Don't forget about price, it needs to be easily affordable - and sustainable.