Cardinals and Neons

[itiwhetu]

I see more and more people trying to keep Cardinals and Neon's in sparsely planted tanks. Ideally these guys should be kept in densely planted aquariums, where they will feel safe. Also soft/acid water and a well established tank

 

[Sgooosh]

I see more and more people trying to keep Cardinals and Neon's in sparsely planted tanks. Ideally these guys should be kept in densely planted aquariums, where they will feel safe. Also soft/acid water and a well established tank
View attachment 152996

cool what are those little plants in the front? looks like Crypts
another unrelated question: i put cambomba in high-light section of my tank, and it turned red and yellow is this OK?
are these just neons or just cardinals?

 

[itiwhetu]

Yep, they are Cryptocoryne parva. Cabomba will change colour depending on light, if the plants are healthy and growing it is not a problem. These are Cardinal Tetras

 

[Sgooosh]

Yep, they are Cryptocoryne parva. Cabomba will change colour depending on light, if the plants are healthy and growing it is not a problem. These are Cardinal Tetras

thanks
parvas are pretty cool

 

[DoubleDutch]

Don't mix different varieties of tetra. Either keep a group of neons, or a group of cardinals, or a group of green neons.

The Cochu's Blue tetra is not a variety of neon but is a bigger light blue tetra that does best in groups of 10 or more of its own kind. These fish either come in good, or all die within a few days of being brought into the country. If you find them in the shop tank, ask how long they have been there for and if they have lost any at all. If they have had them for several weeks with no losses, then buy a big group of them and put them in a well established tank with lots of plants.

Agree. 16 fish in a 5 gallon tank neither is a good idea in my opinion.

About densely planted tanks for cardinals :

 

[itiwhetu]

Thanks, guys, for hijacking my thread, you have done well. I wonder If any of you know why it was originally posted

 

[itiwhetu]

For all the people that talk about the schooling behavior of fish, it is rubbish look at this video. Each male has his territory, and he guards it. There is no schooling behavior. The Tetra males like to have their own space. The whole thing about a minimum of ten fish is rubbish, in fact the smaller the tank the fewer of a species you should have. I would suggest groups of 3-5 fish maximum. I have been wanting to post this video for some time.

 

[Essjay]

I have moved all the off topic posts to create a new thread.

Tetras for 5 gallon tank

I'm considering getting 4 different neon varieties, 4 of each (Green, Green Fire, Cochu's Blue and Cardinal). Do you think they would school eventually? Have a planted 5 gal Marineland Portrait tank.

www.fishforums.net

 

[DoubleDutch]

I have moved all the off topic posts to create a new thread.

Tetras for 5 gallon tank

I'm considering getting 4 different neon varieties, 4 of each (Green, Green Fire, Cochu's Blue and Cardinal). Do you think they would school eventually? Have a planted 5 gal Marineland Portrait tank.

www.fishforums.net

Uhhhhthe vid placed was right on topic I'd say.

 

[Essjay]

All itiwhetu's videos and their replies are still here. I just moved FoxChase's post about stocking a 5 gallon tank, and the replies to that post.

 

[DoubleDutch]

For all the people that talk about the schooling behavior of fish, it is rubbish look at this video. Each male has his territory, and he guards it. There is no schooling behavior. The Tetra males like to have their own space. The whole thing about a minimum of ten fish is rubbish, in fact the smaller the tank the fewer of a species you should have. I would suggest groups of 3-5 fish maximum. I have been wanting to post this video for some time.

Your assumptions and conclusions aren't correct in my opinion. The shown (social) behaviour only can and will be exposed when/if in a decent group (let's not call it a school or shoal then). Not shoaling tight together doesn't mean fish aren't social fish and don't need to be in a group. Such fish that don't simply waste away like single kept lions in a cage.

Also you advise that different tetra species are fine together / shoal therefor simply isn't correct.

Serious amazed you're focussing on Ph but doesn't seem to be aware about social needs of fish.

 

[DoubleDutch]

All itiwhetu's videos and their replies are still here. I just moved FoxChase's post about stocking a 5 gallon tank, and the replies to that post.

The vid about cardinals in the wild (not densely planted) is moved.

 

[Essjay]

I assumed the video was to show FoxChase why 16 fish can't be kept in a 5 gallon tank. My apologies.

Since there were two parts to your post - the first part about the 5 gallon tank, and the second part containing the video, I have left the post in the new thread as it contains a reply to that thread, and copied it back into this thread. You should be able to see it here now in post #5

 

[mbsqw1d]

For all the people that talk about the schooling behavior of fish, it is rubbish look at this video. Each male has his territory, and he guards it. There is no schooling behavior. The Tetra males like to have their own space. The whole thing about a minimum of ten fish is rubbish, in fact the smaller the tank the fewer of a species you should have. I would suggest groups of 3-5 fish maximum. I have been wanting to post this video for some time.

I enjoy watching my black phantoms. They'll circle around each other close, flairing their dorsals and size each other up. Often they'll swim almost horizontal, their side facing the surface whislt doing this. I've not had many other tetra - penguin, neon, lemon, colombian.. but none of those exhibited such behaviour. Black phantoms are great. Yes, plants and low pH are a must for tetra, most fish in fact

 

[Byron]

For all the people that talk about the schooling behavior of fish, it is rubbish look at this video. Each male has his territory, and he guards it. There is no schooling behavior. The Tetra males like to have their own space. The whole thing about a minimum of ten fish is rubbish, in fact the smaller the tank the fewer of a species you should have. I would suggest groups of 3-5 fish maximum. I have been wanting to post this video for some time.

The video is accurate with respect to the natural behaviour of males in this species, but the comment posted is completely misunderstanding of the needs of these fish.

First, what we in the freshwater side of the hobby term a "shoaling" species means the fish has inherent needs to have a group of its own species within the environment. This is programmed into the species' DNA and it must be understood or the fish will never be free of stress. It does not mean that the fish will always "school" in some manner; some species do swim together most often--rummynose tetras is a good example--but all characins must have a group of their own species. And species of cyprinids are the same, and many other species too.

As for numbers, there is unquestionable scientific evidence that the fish in each of these species is affected by the number of their species present. A study on the effect of group size on four species of aquarium fish published in 2010 determined that when a species was maintained in groups of three, five and ten (in different tanks obviously) the fish in the groups of three and five showed clear negative effects compared to those in the group of ten. Aggressive behaviour was increased (aggressive species became more aggressive, while normally non-aggressive species like the neon tetra and white cloud minnow became somewhat aggressive), the tendency to remain together increased (in the smaller groups), darting movements increased (in the smaller groupings) and a latency to feed occurred in the smaller groups. There is not the slightest doubt that the number of fish in the group of a shoaling species has a significant impact on the health and well-being of the fish.

To put a species like your Black Phantom Tetra in a 5 or 10 gallon tank where you can have three or four or five of them, is cruel and inhumane because it denies the fish what it expects and needs to be well-adjusted.

The paper referred to above can be accessed free of charge:

https://www.academia.edu/download/50054534/The_effect_of_group_size_on_the_behaviou20161102-6716-1m0ezpq.pdf