Can I Wait To Add Fish After Tank Cycles?

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EGFishKeepers

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I'm doing a fishless cycle of a new 29 gallon tank.  Tank has been set up 26 days.  My current reading is:
 
Ammonia = 3
Nitrite=.25
 
I last added ammonia 2 weeks ago.
 
I'm expecting it to cycle anytime.  We're planning a dwarf puffers tank and maybe a couple of small plecs or otos.   but I'm not sure I can get puffers until perhaps weeks after tank has cycled.  Is this ok?  Do I have to keep feeding ammonia and doing water changes?  Should I add oto cats (if I can find those) and maybe a couple of small plec to produce ammonia naturally?
 
Thoughts?
 
Thanks
 
dj
 
I can't comment on your stocking plans as I have no experience with those fish - however you can keep the tank bacteria going by giving them the occasional snack as suggested by TTA in his article or you could add a couple of fish at a time, but only once the cycle is complete. I wouldn't try to fully stock immediately - personally I'd add them slowly to give the bacteria you've so carefully nurtured in the cycle to acclimatise to the new stock before adding more - usually a week or 2 in between additions. Each time you add any stock keep an eye on those water parameters to make sure the bacteria are coping.
 
If you last added ammonia two weeks ago and it is still at 3ppm I would say you are not near finished cycling yet.
 
There are several benefits to doing a fishless cycle. The most obvious and single most important reason is obvious, no fish can be harmed. While that in itself is enough of a reason for going fishless, there are other reasons. The next biggest benefit is that it allows one to stock 100% all at once, This has the additional benefit of making it unnecessary to use a quarantine process. The tank itself serves that purpose since all the fish go in at once. If you decide to stock gradually over time, using a quarantine tank is strongly recommended.
 
The other side of the process is that over time without a full load, the bacterial colonies will reduce in size down to the actual bioload of a tank. While the bacteria are hardy and have strategies for surviving hard times, lowering ammonia is not one of these. They will actually do better in this respect in times of no ammonia as opposed to too little ammonia. Since there is no formula or detection method one can use to determine such a loss of processing capacity, the first hint that if this will be ammonia and nitrite coming back,
 
If one decides to try and stock gradually as part of a fishless cyle, then it becomes a waste of time and testing to shoot for 3 ppm. This amount is intended to insure a tank is safe for a full fish load to go in all at once (or in a fairly short time period). If all one is going to do is put in something like 1/3 of the stocking (based on bio-load) then all you need to do is cycle the tank to 1 or 1.5 ppm. And this will go faster than doing it for 3 ppm.
 
The problem is one is now turning a fishless cycle into a partial fish in cycle. If sufficient time has elapsed between the first and second additions, the bacteria at work will have begun to downsize towards supporting that level of stocking. Now when one adds the next fish you may need to deal with cycling issues all over again. One needs to create a plan for adding the new bio-load to the tank in a manner that will cause the fewest cycling related issues.
 
One way to look at setting up a new tank and having it moved from that point to where it is completely settled in is that the important heavy lifting mostly happens in the first 6 to 8 weeks where cycling is the over riding issue. However, just because we are focused on the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria doesn't mean most of the other types that are part of a healthy tank are not also multiplying and becoming established. The bio-film in which the nitrifying bacteria live and use to attach to surfaces contains a host of other bacteria and all of them work in concert in the bio-film. The reason we concentrate on the nitrifyers is, without these, a tank can not survive very long.
 
In the long run a stable healthy tank depends on more than having established the invisible world of microorganisms it contains. Regular maintenance and care are required to keep our closed ecosystems functioning smoothly. No matter how well established any tank might be, neglect will quickly undo things.
 
Now to circle back to the original Q. When adding fish gradually it is not the number if fish that must be considered but rather the amount of waste they will create. Bear in mind that fish poop and uneaten food break down into ammonia but that fish also exhale ammonia. The goal in gradual stocking is to work to control how the bio-load is increased. A rule of thumb is to shoot for something in the range of 20%-25% increments. This will keep each ammonia and nitrite spikes to a minimum and to make then manageable.  In this respect think in terms of body mass. More body mass = more ammonia creation potential.
 
I hope I didn't give the impression that I was suggesting it is ok to add fish during the fishless cycle as that was certainly not my intention and why I said not to attempt it until the cycle was complete, but perhaps that got by-passed somehow.
 
No, you did not leave that impression, at least not with me. But your suggestion to do a fishless cycle and then to add fish gradually does not not make sense for the reasons I laid out. What I said is it essentially turns a fishless cycle back into a fish in cycle because of the gradual stocking. It is not the same thing as a fish in because the first fish added go into a fully cycled tank, But after that the bacterial colonies will begin to downsize to the ammonia levels of a partial fish load. Depending on the spacing between additions one can actually revert to being identical to fishless after the initial addition.
 
The key to understanding what is going on has to do with the ammonia levels for the most part. What we see in an established tank is that it is able to process ammonia etc. completely. So we can also say the size of the bacterial colonies is sufficient to do this. However, what we do not see is the fast that there is a constant process of deth and reproduction going on relative to individual bacterium. And oversimplification is to think of there being 100 individual bacteria processing ammonia. Each day a few of these die and a few reproduce. So every day you have 100 bacterium but not the exact same 100. Now if ammonia levels created in the tank are reduced by 25%, there is now only a need and food supply for about 75 individuals. Since the bacteria only reproduce when there is more ammonia than they need for maintenance, that 25% decrease has an effect. The same dying part continues but the reproductive pace slows. The result is over time there will be a drop in the number of individuals which in turn decreases the total colony size.
 
As mentioned this is an over simplification. It is not quite that formulaic, but the principles at work are on the money. The time frames and numbers are a bit more flexible. One can not say if you wait 2 weeks to add more fish it is fine but 15 days means it wont be. If additions are done more rapidly there may be few or no issues. But what is known is one can stock 1005 after a fishless cycle, there will be no issues of this sort. Wait and add fish gradually, and one may undo some of the benefit of having gone fishless.
 
Right I guess I was under the wrong impression that some of the bacteria went dormant if there wasn't enough food (ammonia) rather than dying and that they recovered quite quickly if the food source increased for whatever reason. 
I wish I could remember which thread it was. I suspect it's not a million miles away but it was several months ago so I may not be able to find it again. 
 
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused, EGfishkeepers - hope you'll post some pictures when you do eventually stock your tank.  
 
I've made the same assumption before, Mama, I think TTA explained that the bacteria go dormant if food is completely withdrawn but this is not necessarily true if food is partially withdrawn.  Perhaps it's a mechanism evolved to cope with conditions in nature where bacteria would have to survive periods of starvation, whereas a population will always be limited by the amount of food when it's available.
 
That could be what I was thinking of daize - thanks for clarifying!
 
Thanks for the advice...I'm going to try and stock it all at once when it finally cycles
 

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