Can I add kribs to my existing community planted tank

[nik_n]

I have a 180l planted tank, with two angelfish, two blue gouramis, 4 bristle nose super reds and two panda garra. I wanted to add a pair of dwarf cichlids (appistogramma or kribs). I decided on kribensis because I haven't kept them in the past.

I was wondering if I could add them. I do regular water changes and NO2,NO3 and NH4 levles are all 0. Would the tank be overstocked if I added any more fish?

Thanks

 

[PorshaF]

I have heard that kribs are aggressive with territory, they may be a problem with the angelfish. I'm unsure how they would be with the gourami since in my experience gourami are peaceful. Which could lead to them being bullied or find nipped. I've always heard it's best if doing a community tank of cichlid to house them as species tank with similar behavioral cichlid. Peaceful and peaceful, aggressive and aggressive etc, also to spread aggression you would add more females than males. There is a thread just for cichlids I believe that may help in your decision, best of luck! ?

 

[kribensis12]

This would belong in the African/Old World Cichlids section.

With that being said; there are a couple of things to consider.

1. Kribensis are more aggressive in my experience than most dwarf cichlids. They are not overly aggressive like many cichlids are, but they will definitely defend their fry if they breed.

2. If the Kribensis do not breed, they likely will get along just fine with your angelfish and definitely will not bother the Bristlenose or Panda Garra.

I have successfully kept kribensis (even while breeding) in a community tank. The "trick" is to have plenty of caves and plants to help divide up their territory. I would encourage you to invest in some dither fish such as zebra danios - their quick movement and wide tank range may help off-set any aggression the kribensis show.

Ultimately - you are trying to put together fish that would never encounter each other in the wild. It is likely, in my experience, to not be problematic for your fish. Unfortunately, there is no way to know until you try it. I would definitely take into consideration the size of your current angels - if they are on the smaller size, I would recommend on waiting before adding kribensis.

 

[Mick85]

Just to add to what the guys above have said i think it will also depend on your tank if it will work out. If it's a tall 180L with not many plants then probably not, if it's a longer 180L with lots of plants and hiding places then i think they'll be fine. I've had a Kribensis in a 165L tall community tank with angels, rainbows, BNPs etc and found the kribensis to be a bit aggressive but i think that's because the tank didn't have a big footprint and not many plants to break up line of sight. They are a territorial fish so they need room to set up their territory.

 

[Colin_T]

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

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A pr of kribensis or Apistogrammas would be fine assuming the tank is at least 3 foot long and the pH and GH are suitable. You want a pH around 7.0 and a GH below 150ppm for both types of fish.

I would go for Apistogrammas because they are not as easy to get and you can sell any babies that appear. Whereas kribensis are a dime a dozen and most shops won't take them in any quantity.

 

[nik_n]

The tank is 3 feet long and its a 180l long tank. I have 3 caves and would add more. The ph is around 7.5. I was told that Apistogrammas are more aggressive of the two. The tank has 5 amazon swords 3 anubias and ludwigia. one of the amazon swords is also sending out runners and I would keep them as well. Are apistogramma more challenging to care for and breeding. Are they more peaceful of the two, especially when breeding?

I'm guessing that the tank isn't overstocked now and wouldn't be if I add 2-3 more fish. Especial with the amount of plants I have in there. I will ask around in my LFS, if they would tank kribensis babies, because I can't keep the babies.

 

[kribensis12]

I would agree with @Colin_T regarding dimensions - footprint would really matter for Kribensis as they dwell in the mid-lower region of the tank and need room to establish a territory. I also agree that if you are going to need to offload fry, apistos are your better bet (unless you choose a rarer variant of kribensis like Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Moliwe")

I would disagree though on pH and hardness. Some fish in the aquarium trade have really adapted to a variety of pH and hardness - in my experience Kribensis are one of those species. I have kept them in 8.5pH with very hard water and in a 7.0 pH with soft water - they did amazingly in both scenarios. In the wild, they come from a pH of 6.5-7.0.

What I would look for is the pH/gH of the current tank v. the tank they are coming from. Suppliers usually buy fish that are raised in the water they have (for example, our local LFS has hard water and all fish they purchase are raised in hard water). So I would recommend verifying that you have similar water - and if the tank dimensions are satisfactory, I do not see this being problematic for the kribensis.

As @Mick85 stated, he has done Kribs and Angels and noticed aggression.

 

[Slaphppy7]

I would agree with @Colin_T regarding dimensions - footprint would really matter for Kribensis as they dwell in the mid-lower region of the tank and need room to establish a territory. I also agree that if you are going to need to offload fry, apistos are your better bet (unless you choose a rarer variant of kribensis like Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Moliwe")

I would disagree though on pH and hardness. Some fish in the aquarium trade have really adapted to a variety of pH and hardness - in my experience Kribensis are one of those species. I have kept them in 8.5pH with very hard water and in a 7.0 pH with soft water - they did amazingly in both scenarios. In the wild, they come from a pH of 6.5-7.0.

What I would look for is the pH/gH of the current tank v. the tank they are coming from. Suppliers usually buy fish that are raised in the water they have (for example, our local LFS has hard water and all fish they purchase are raised in hard water). So I would recommend verifying that you have similar water - and if the tank dimensions are satisfactory, I do not see this being problematic for the kribensis.

As @Mick85 stated, he has done Kribs and Angels and noticed aggression.

"What I would look for is the pH/gH of the current tank v. the tank they are coming from."

+1 to this, with ALL fish, IMO

 

[nik_n]

Here in Switzerland the water the ph of water is relatively high (7.6-8.2). I know most of the fish from my LFS are imported form Germany, where they also have similar water, and thats why the fish they sell are all well accustomed to it.

So kribensis in my current tank could work, provided that there are enough caves for plecos, pandas and them. The same thing with appistogramma, only it would be easier to unload the fry, if there is any. Would trio of apistogramma be a better fit and will there be any chance of breeding (I would hope for some).

 

[kribensis12]

Here in Switzerland the water the ph of water is relatively high (7.6-8.2). I know most of the fish from my LFS are imported form Germany, where they also have similar water, and thats why the fish they sell are all well accustomed to it.

So kribensis in my current tank could work, provided that there are enough caves for plecos, pandas and them. The same thing with appistogramma, only it would be easier to unload the fry, if there is any. Would trio of apistogramma be a better fit and will there be any chance of breeding (I would hope for some).

Apistogrammas are, in my experience, less aggressive than Kribensis. Then again, when they breed - they can become territorial and make nip at the Angels etc.

I once had Wild Caught Apistogramma Cacatouides and they were all friends until the huge male bred - then one was killed and the other 3 were cornered over night. The tank was small and the fish were other apistos which is why that happened.

I think that if you are looking for a "instant win", apistos might be a better choice. If you really want to give Kribs a try, I think they should be okay given ample territory. They are not hyper aggressive by any means, but they are a smidge more aggressive than Rams.

 

[nik_n]

I couldn't decide between the three (rams, apistograma or kribs) but considering that I kept apistos in the past, and that rams are a bit more sensitive I thought it would be safe to go with kribs. But then again kribs are much bigger then the other two so... I think I will probably go with apistogramma then. In the future I hope to have enough tanks to keep them all, in their own community set ups.

Since I didn't get any backlash on asking if I could add 3 more fish, I would say it won't have a huge impact. Thank you

 

[kribensis12]

I couldn't decide between the three (rams, apistograma or kribs) but considering that I kept apistos in the past, and that rams are a bit more sensitive I thought it would be safe to go with kribs. But then again kribs are much bigger then the other two so... I think I will probably go with apistogramma then. In the future I hope to have enough tanks to keep them all, in their own community set ups
Since I didn't get any backlash on asking if I could add 3 more fish, I would say it won't have a huge impact. Thank you

I would suspect with enough hiding places you could keep a group of 6 or more. They are pretty social creatures when not breeding. You would probably want to introduce them either all at the same time (which risks overloading your bioload) or adding 3 one week (with reduced feedings) and 3 the next (might want to rearrange the caves).

Best of luck!

 

[nik_n]

Wow thats a lot fish. I never though I could have so many. This makes me really excited!! I will definitely be adding a trio, keeping them for a week or so, monitor their behaviour and decide if I want to add more later. If I get any babies I will want to keep a few. Do you have any recommendation for the spices. I know that my fish store has agazzizi and red and orange cacatodies (I don't know how to spell it).

 

[Colin_T]

just get a pair (1 male & 1 female) of the Apistogramma cacatuoides, whichever colour you prefer.

 

[kribensis12]

Wow thats a lot fish. I never though I could have so many. This makes me really excited!! I will definitely be adding a trio, keeping them for a week or so, monitor their behaviour and decide if I want to add more later. If I get any babies I will want to keep a few. Do you have any recommendation for the spices. I know that my fish store has agazzizi and red and orange cacatodies (I don't know how to spell it).

In the wild, these fish live in densely populated areas. My favorite dwarf apisto is Apistogramma Cacatouides (see my newly started breeding journal here ).

The key to keeping many together (I would recommend if you wanted to do 6, do two males and 4 females as they will harem breed) is plenty of caves, plants and driftwood. In the wild they live in shallow streams filled with leaf litter and driftwood.

As @Colin_T pointed out, you could start with 1 pair. There is never a guarantee that 1m/1f will actually pair off which is why I recommend more. Give that your tank is about 50 U.S. Gallons, I think you would not want to exceed 6 due to your stocking levels. You may be best served by doing a trio and later adding another if you choose too.