caffeine thought of the day... long term use of magnetic scrapers...

[Magnum Man]

, as I sit here sipping my caffeine, I notice my magnetic algae scraper on the front of the tank... I leave mine attached to the glass, ready for use... most magnets contain some form of iron... I'm sure if you are doing water changes like you're supposed to, there isn't a problem with leaching, if you leave the scraper attached to the glass, in the tank, ready for use, and I'm not familiar with how the plastic magnets work ( I assume there are iron partials embedded in the plastic ) but any magnetic scrapers I've used always had a metal block inside...

part 2...

do you think those magnetic fields would mess with any of the fish that use "sonar"??? while there are only a few, like elephant noses, baby whales, or dolphins, and I'm sure there are more, that use electrical pulses to navigate, assist in helping catch food, or communicate...

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

, as I sit here sipping my caffeine, I notice my magnetic algae scraper on the front of the tank... I leave mine attached to the glass, ready for use... most magnets contain some form of iron... I'm sure if you are doing water changes like you're supposed to, there isn't a problem with leaching, if you leave the scraper attached to the glass, in the tank, ready for use, and I'm not familiar with how the plastic magnets work ( I assume there are iron partials embedded in the plastic ) but any magnetic scrapers I've used always had a metal block inside...

part 2...

do you think those magnetic fields would mess with any of the fish that use sonar??? while there are only a few, like elephant noses, baby whales, or dolphins, and I'm sure there are more, that use electrical pulses to navigate, assist in helping catch food, or communicate...

I don't think sonar would be an issue, but there are aquarium fish that do use electric pulses for hunting and detection of other fishes. Knife fish, electric eels, electric catfish, baby whale fish (Brienomyrus brachyistius).
Just this past weekend I watched a cool documentary about an ichthyologist who traveled to Soutj America to work with Electric eels and other electric fish. It was fascinating, and a little scary. He caught a good 4-5 foot electric eel and brought it back to camp to do tests on it. The determined this electric eels could produce 400 watts of electricity . Almost 4x what comes out of your electric outlet here in the U.S. More than enough juice to kill you.

Amazon's Electric Fish - National Geographic for everyone in everywhere https://share.google/CwbhyFb91yXu68KdE

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Well that is shocking..........

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Well that is shocking..........

Somebody had to say it.

 

[Magnum Man]

I had a large ( 1 foot long ) electric catfish 30ish years ago... and even my younger self, didn't have the guts to try to get shocked by it...

 

[anewbie]

All i know is when my black ghost knife wants to eat in peace everyone else scatters - who knows why.

 

[GaryE]

This is an excellent question - one of those great ones I doubt anyone has seriously researched an answer to...

I would like to keep some Mormyrid elephant nose fish. We caught so many of them in Gabon, with so much apparent diversity. They were common ingredients in fish soup - yet who breeds them in aquariums? They seem sort of difficult, but in nature, they may have been the most common catch. I have Parananochromis gabonicus here, and traded a few nets full of Mormyrids for their grandfather. One of my friends traded his nets full for females.

But these fish remain poorly distributed in the hobby. I guess we don't like soup enough.

The electrical pulse thing really makes me curious. It isn't just magnetic particles in glass scratchers, I mean algae cleaners. What about power filters with their magnetic impellers? Heaters? Electrical equipment in general.

I'm gonna have to go back and get some of these fish.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Early on I wanted a BKG but they get way too big for my tanks back then and even today. They can reach 2 feet and need a tank more than thatin terms of width (front to back). But I did research them to learn that. They have a weak electrical sense which they use to locate prey. here is what TFH magazine says about them.

the black ghost poses no electrical danger to you or to its tankmates. You would need a very sensitive meter to detect the weak field the fish generates. It uses the field to navigate through dark, murky habitats, to locate prey, and to communicate with others of its species (e.g., to challenge interlopers or find a mate). In the confines of a tank, electrogenic fish can be stressed by the presence of other such fish because their fields overlap continuously. This is a fascinating fish for the larger aquarium.

Here is what you can read on Maidenhead Aquatics site:

Firstly, this fish grows very large and cannot really bend, so a voluminous aquarium (at least 6ft long and a minimum 2.5ft wide) is a must. Secondly, the knifefish must be provided with a choice of shady hiding spots e.g. wide PVC tubes, rocky caves/overhangs (do ensure such structures are stable), and large tangles of driftwood. The lighting should not be too bright as these nocturnal fish are sensitive to intense illumination; if the tank must be brightly lit in some areas, provide plenty of broad leaved aquatic plants and floating species to help diffuse the light. Nonetheless, there absolutely must be areas of darkness within the tank that the fish can retreat to during the day as necessary. The substrate should consist of soft sand in order that the fish may grub about safely when searching for food, and so that the delicate anal fin does not become torn in any sharp gravel.

It will eat smaller fish and I am sure in a tank they would scatter when it approaches. But it is a really meat fish to watch and if you have a proper sized tank with the needed aquascaping, it is worth keeping.

 

[anewbie]

Early on I wanted a BKG but they get way too big for my tanks back then and even today. They can reach 2 feet and need a tank more than thatin terms of width (front to back). But I did research them to learn that. They have a weak electrical sense which they use to locate prey. here is what TFH magazine says about them.



Here is what you can read on Maidenhead Aquatics site:



It will eat smaller fish and I am sure in a tank they would scatter when it approaches. But it is a really meat fish to watch and if you have a proper sized tank with the needed aquascaping, it is worth keeping.

Well my tank is only 10 ft x 4ft so maybe too small; we shall see. Mine is not shy at all and gets along with the loaches it hangs out with which sort of surprise me. As for pvc i would not put pvc in an acidic aquarium as it leaches (fda recommended cities stop using it and replace such pipes due to long term health issues). Of course pvc is used for sump interconnect and tubing et all so i guess it is hard to escape (a better material would be polyp which is inert); still i would not put a piece of pvc in the tank where it is sitting in water.

 

[GaryE]

I have no interest in ghost knives, but this question sent off digging for info on African elephant noses and mormyrids (the ball game on tv was dull, so research happens). I came across references to how hard they are to breed, including theories as to why. Since they communicate by electrical pulses, it's considered possible that the aquarium disrupts that communication. It could be the equipment, or the glass walls bouncing the pulses.
So if the fish sends a pulse saying "anyone want to come over and watch fishnetflix with me?" and as it hits the wall, it comes out as "hey, I like trains", not much is going to happen.

They have to be very productive fish, as they were everywhere we fished. But in the aquarium, they may not have been bred. We completely disrupt their world and can't replicate it.

I know a man who researches SA electrical fish, and they often differentiate species not by our eyes, but by the frequencies of their pulses. Their world is electric. Ours is interference.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I have no interest in ghost knives, but this question sent off digging for info on African elephant noses and mormyrids (the ball game on tv was dull, so research happens). I came across references to how hard they are to breed, including theories as to why. Since they communicate by electrical pulses, it's considered possible that the aquarium disrupts that communication. It could be the equipment, or the glass walls bouncing the pulses.
So if the fish sends a pulse saying "anyone want to come over and watch fishnetflix with me?" and as it hits the wall, it comes out as "hey, I like trains", not much is going to happen.

They have to be very productive fish, as they were everywhere we fished. But in the aquarium, they may not have been bred. We completely disrupt their world and can't replicate it.

I know a man who researches SA electrical fish, and they often differentiate species not by our eyes, but by the frequencies of their pulses. Their world is electric. Ours is interference.

Yes! In a really weird coincidence, yesterday after posting in this thread I saw the documentary I mentioned aired again on TV. So I watched it again. The researcher, I believe was Dr. Crampton from Florida State University. He made an electrical detector that he stuck in the water and he was able to pinpoint the location of electrical fishes for capture. This device has a speaker and it gave an audible tone to the electric impulses the fish produced. He is able to identify different species just based on the different patterns of pulses the fish produce. If anyone wants to check this out the program was called Electric Amazon. It's worth 60 minutes to watch.

 

[TNG]

do you think those magnetic fields would mess with any of the fish that use "sonar"??? while there are only a few, like elephant noses, baby whales, or dolphins, and I'm sure there are more, that use electrical pulses to navigate, assist in helping catch food, or communicate...

I doubt that magnets and magnetic fields would interfere with electric pulses emitted by the fish.

We can use electric current to generate magnetic field, but I don’t think the reverse is possible, I don't think magnet and magnetic fields could generate electrical current to interfere with electric pulses from the fish.

I don't think sonar would be an issue, but there are aquarium fish that do use electric pulses for hunting and detection of other fishes. Knife fish, electric eels, electric catfish, baby whale fish (Brienomyrus brachyistius).
Just this past weekend I watched a cool documentary about an ichthyologist who traveled to Soutj America to work with Electric eels and other electric fish. It was fascinating, and a little scary. He caught a good 4-5 foot electric eel and brought it back to camp to do tests on it. The determined this electric eels could produce 400 watts of electricity . Almost 4x what comes out of your electric outlet here in the U.S. More than enough juice to kill you.

Amazon's Electric Fish - National Geographic for everyone in everywhere https://share.google/CwbhyFb91yXu68KdE

That electric eel packs a deadly punch!

The voltage in the US is 120 Volts, but Voltage is different from Wattage.
If we plug an electrical equipment which draws 10Amp (Ampere) from the power socket then we pull 1200Watts (120 x 10) from the system which is a lot more than 400Watts from the eel.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I doubt that magnets and magnetic fields would interfere with electric pulses emitted by the fish.

We can use electric current to generate magnetic field, but I don’t think the reverse is possible, I don't think magnet and magnetic fields could generate electrical current to interfere with electric pulses from the fish.




That electric eel packs a deadly punch!

The voltage in the US is 120 Volts, but Voltage is different from Wattage.
If we plug an electrical equipment which draws 10Amp (Ampere) from the power socket then we pull 1200Watts (120 x 10) from the system which is a lot more than 400Watts from the eel.

Magnets can and do generate electric fields, though--that's how generators work, among other things. I don't know enough to say whether a magnetic scraper will interfere with aquarium fish; you might be right about that. But magnetism and electricity are very closely related, almost interchangeable in some situations. Also, I seem to remember reading that many, perhaps most, animals can detect magnetic fields. Some research seems to indicate that even we can, though on a subconscious level.

 

[Magnum Man]

magnetic scrapers utilize very strong magnets, including possibly what are called "rare earth" magnets, that have much stronger magnetic fields, than common iron magnets... I have one on my antique tank, that uses plate glass almost a half inch thick, double the thickness of the newer tempered glass tanks, and it has the power to still function, on the thick glass tank.

 

[TNG]

Magnets can and do generate electric fields, though--that's how generators work, among other things. I don't know enough to say whether a magnetic scraper will interfere with aquarium fish; you might be right about that. But magnetism and electricity are very closely related, almost interchangeable in some situations. Also, I seem to remember reading that many, perhaps most, animals can detect magnetic fields. Some research seems to indicate that even we can, though on a subconscious level.

Now that you mentioned it, I remember in the good old days when batteries were expensive, we had this thing called bike dynamo which was used to generate electrical current and light for push bikes. Inside that dynamo was a magnet!

What I meant and should have said was, a magnet sitting on its own wouldn’t generate electrical current. If there are fish which are sensitive to magnetic fields, as opposed to electric fields, then that's a different story.