Bumblebee Goby - Acclimating Them Back To Salt

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Rez

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Hi I am getting some bumblebee gobies in less than a month. I am getting them from my local Petco (only because that is the only place I can find them) and I am 99% sure that they are being kept in 100% freshwater, since the freshwater aquariums all share the same filter system. I know that the Bumblebee gobies need brackish water to thrive. I was wondering how best to get them back to brackish water conditions. I know that if I set up the brackish aqaurium and then place them into it from their former freshwater home they may be shocked and die. Has anyone else had this problem or can offer some help for me? Thanks




Rez B)
 
Hello Rez,

Bumblebee gobies, Brachygobius spp. are probably the most misunderstood "brackish water" fishes in the hobby. This starts with the fact most books identify them as Brachygobius xanthozona, a species never traded in the hobby and actually very rare in the wild. The problems continue with ideas about their ecology, with the belief that they are primarily brackish water fish. Collectors and scientists insist that they are usually found in freshwater habitats, including soft and acid water conditions. See, for example, the Fishbase entry for the red-tail puffer, where that puffer is found where the "water was murky brown, with pH about 6.0. Syntopic species include ... Brachygobius doriae...".

I have a specimen in a softwater aquarium (pH 6.5, hardness below 7 degrees GH) that has been in the tank for over a year. It is perfectly active and greedy.

In other words, bumblebees, at least the commonly traded species (of which there are probably three), are freshwater fish that sometimes occur in brackish, rather than strictly brackish water fish. They do not need brackish water. The prime reason people lose these fish isn't water chemistry but feeding. They do prefer live foods, but will eat a variety of frozen foods too. See the Brackish FAQ for more.

That said, in soft, acid water they may be more sensitive to problems, and they are certainly easier to breed in slightly brackish water. I would certainly recommend at least keeping them at a pH of 7.5 and in moderately hard water. Equally, there is no harm at all if you want to keep them in brackish. Adapting them to brackish is easy. Put them in a bucket with the water from the aquarium store. Add some brackish water to the bucket, at the rate of around a cup every 15-30 minutes. You can adapt a bumblebee (or any other brackish fish for that matter) from fresh to brackish at SG 1.005 in about half an hour, and in many cases from fresh to salt in only 2-3 hours. (Actually, some species, like scats, can be dumped straight into salt water, but I wouldn't recommend this.)

There is an excellent discussion on these gobies by Naomi Delventhal, a goby biologist and breeder, here at the Yahoo Goby Group.

Cheers,

Neale

Hi I am getting some bumblebee gobies in less than a month. I am getting them from my local Petco (only because that is the only place I can find them) and I am 99% sure that they are being kept in 100% freshwater, since the freshwater aquariums all share the same filter system. I know that the Bumblebee gobies need brackish water to thrive. I was wondering how best to get them back to brackish water conditions. I know that if I set up the brackish aqaurium and then place them into it from their former freshwater home they may be shocked and die. Has anyone else had this problem or can offer some help for me? Thanks
 
Hello Rez,

Bumblebee gobies, Brachygobius spp. are probably the most misunderstood "brackish water" fishes in the hobby. This starts with the fact most books identify them as Brachygobius xanthozona, a species never traded in the hobby and actually very rare in the wild. The problems continue with ideas about their ecology, with the belief that they are primarily brackish water fish. Collectors and scientists insist that they are usually found in freshwater habitats, including soft and acid water conditions. See, for example, the Fishbase entry for the red-tail puffer, where that puffer is found where the "water was murky brown, with pH about 6.0. Syntopic species include ... Brachygobius doriae...".

I have a specimen in a softwater aquarium (pH 6.5, hardness below 7 degrees GH) that has been in the tank for over a year. It is perfectly active and greedy.

In other words, bumblebees, at least the commonly traded species (of which there are probably three), are freshwater fish that sometimes occur in brackish, rather than strictly brackish water fish. They do not need brackish water. The prime reason people lose these fish isn't water chemistry but feeding. They do prefer live foods, but will eat a variety of frozen foods too. See the Brackish FAQ for more.

That said, in soft, acid water they may be more sensitive to problems, and they are certainly easier to breed in slightly brackish water. I would certainly recommend at least keeping them at a pH of 7.5 and in moderately hard water. Equally, there is no harm at all if you want to keep them in brackish. Adapting them to brackish is easy. Put them in a bucket with the water from the aquarium store. Add some brackish water to the bucket, at the rate of around a cup every 15-30 minutes. You can adapt a bumblebee (or any other brackish fish for that matter) from fresh to brackish at SG 1.005 in about half an hour, and in many cases from fresh to salt in only 2-3 hours. (Actually, some species, like scats, can be dumped straight into salt water, but I wouldn't recommend this.)

There is an excellent discussion on these gobies by Naomi Delventhal, a goby biologist and breeder, here at the Yahoo Goby Group.

Cheers,

Neale

does this mean i can keep BBG with my freshwater species?
 
Assuming you have one of the three commonly traded species, which are about 2.5 cm long and have black and lemon yellow banding, then yes, you can keep them in fresh water.

While I have a specimen in soft water, they are probably easier to maintain in hard or alkaline water. An argument put forward for keeping them in brackish water is that you can then maintain them with live brine shrimps, which will allow them to feed at their leisure. This is the argument made by Frank Schaefer in the Aqualog book. But provided your fish are feeding well in freshwater, then adding salt isn't required.

Do bear in mind that they are difficult fish for community tanks. They feed only slowly, and cannot compete with aggressive or boisterous fishes. More people lose these gobies because of starvation than anything else. Since they are picky eaters, many specimens are half-starved by the time you buy them, so select new specimens with care.

Cheers,

Neale

does this mean i can keep BBG with my freshwater species?
 
Assuming you have one of the three commonly traded species, which are about 2.5 cm long and have black and lemon yellow banding, then yes, you can keep them in fresh water.

While I have a specimen in soft water, they are probably easier to maintain in hard or alkaline water. An argument put forward for keeping them in brackish water is that you can then maintain them with live brine shrimps, which will allow them to feed at their leisure. This is the argument made by Frank Schaefer in the Aqualog book. But provided your fish are feeding well in freshwater, then adding salt isn't required.

Do bear in mind that they are difficult fish for community tanks. They feed only slowly, and cannot compete with aggressive or boisterous fishes. More people lose these gobies because of starvation than anything else. Since they are picky eaters, many specimens are half-starved by the time you buy them, so select new specimens with care.

Cheers,

Neale

is there a minimum number of them required in order for them to thrieve?
:thanks:
 
No, they aren't schooling fish. Quite the reverse, in fact, they are territorial. However, they are much more fun kept in large "swarms" because they become more active. Each fish will chase any others in the neighbourhood. I'd get at least four, allowing about a gallon or two per fish. Make sure each has a safe home (like a cave) so that they can define viable territories and each fish has somewhere safe. They won't swim far from their cave, and the little skirmishes they have under these cicrumstances are harmless.

As others have discovered, they mix well with some small puffers, with each species ignoring the other.

Cheers,

Neale

is there a minimum number of them required in order for them to thrieve?
:thanks:
 
No, they aren't schooling fish. Quite the reverse, in fact, they are territorial. However, they are much more fun kept in large "swarms" because they become more active. Each fish will chase any others in the neighbourhood. I'd get at least four, allowing about a gallon or two per fish. Make sure each has a safe home (like a cave) so that they can define viable territories and each fish has somewhere safe. They won't swim far from their cave, and the little skirmishes they have under these cicrumstances are harmless.

As others have discovered, they mix well with some small puffers, with each species ignoring the other.

Cheers,

Neale

will they cause any problem with my corries, loaches and frys?
 
It's difficult for me to be critical of the advice AMS offers in this thread. Keeping bumblebees in brackish water won't do them any harm provided the salinity is kept low (an SG of 1.005, as AMS suggests, is fine). AMS has experience of these fish, and that beats anything quoted from a book or web site.

The problem is that in the hobby dogma sometimes gets mistaken for reality. The other examples in the brackish water world are glassfish and wrestling halfbeaks. Both are routinely said to be brackish water fish. They're not. Conversely, many books say the figure-8 puffer is a freshwater fish, and it turns out it needs brackish water. Over the years I've learned from these discussions and the Brackish FAQ has been changed accordingly. Hence when I came to doing the Brackish book for TFH, I turned to breeders and scientists in the field to write specific chapters on things like gobies.

Not much written over the last couple of decades on bumblebee gobies is terribly accurate. Virtually every book and magazine has the wrong names applied to the wrong goby species, something Naomi Delventhal is working to make sure doesn't happen in the Brackish book. Likewise, I've tested out bumblebees in soft/acid water and found they will survive in it perfectly well for months, if not years, but they are not hardy, and I have lost more specimens this way than I'm comfortable with. On the other hand, Naomi has kept and bred them in purely fresh water with a neutral to high pH and hardness level.

There are also multiple species involved, and it is entirely possible that the species sold in the US, for example, are not the same as those sold in the UK. There may also be distinct populations within each species, with some occuring in brackish water, while others only in fresh. Hence, it's very difficult to give a categoric answer.

Bottom line, the idea these gobies must have salty water is not true. That they may be easier to keep in brackish water is something several experienced aquarists have observed, and for the less experienced aquarist it may be exactly the way to go.

Cheers,

Neale

PS. Statements like "Never try to acclimatise a non brackish fish to brackish water, freshwater fish have not adapted to take the high levels of salt in brackish water and it will kill them, the same goes for brackish fish into freshwater" are guidelines not laws. This is one of the things that fascinates me about brackish water fishes, that they are adaptable, and brackish water habitats are not one type of thing, but a whole spectrum.

For example, you can find Asian climbing perch, jewel cichlids, spiny eels, giant gouramis, common plecs, and x-ray tetras in brackish water in the wild. All will do better, however, in fresh water. So all the "brackish water fish" on that list can be adapted to fresh water conditions perfectly well.

What CFC is getting at is that "true" brackish water fish, in the sense of those particularly adapted to that habitat, like monos and scats, shouldn't be kept in freshwater aquaria. He is, of course, correct. The tricky bit is that recognising which are "true" brackish water fish is more difficult that some believe. Many species, such as glassfish, halfbeaks, and bumblebees, are supposedly brackish water fish, but either definitely aren't or are at least arguably not.

 
thank you so much Neale for a very impressive and intelligent explanation.
more power to your book!
:drinks:
 
What I was trying to get across in the the other thread was that BBG's are far best suited in slightly brackish waters, though it is quite possible you can house them in freshwater so long as the pH is about 8.2 and the water is hard.

By quoting CFC ("Never try to acclimatise a non brackish fish to brackish water, freshwater fish have not adapted to take the high levels of salt in brackish water and it will kill them, the same goes for brackish fish into freshwater.") I was wrong in a sense. BBG's along with all other low-end brackish species naturally occur in mostly freshwater as well as slightly brackish waters. The problem though is that almost all of those fish are for some reason far better suited in slightly brackish aquaria rather than freshwater despite being primarily found in freshwatrers. Why they are has yet to be answered scientifically.

So all in all if you want to try to keep BBG's in you FW tank go right ahead, the problem is that you will run into difficulties with your pH and hardness. By all means if you want to keep them go for it, but I am trying to persuade you not due to the current water chemistry.
 
Hello AMC --

I actually agree with you, that for most people, maintaining bumblebees in slightly brackish is the way to go. Arguably, it's the same with mollies; even if they don't need salty water, the high pH and hardness that come from using brackish water is exactly what they need. In a regular, more or less neutral freshwater aquarium, mollies don't do well. So, your advice is solid, and I'd back it up 100%.

The question is specifically do they need salt, and the answer to that is, under optimal conditions, probably not. But, as I am learning keeping a soft water aquarium, it is very difficult to keep the pH steady in a tank using rainwater (or any other low hardness water). What happens in the wild isn't always a good guide for what we want in aquaria. For example, neon tetras die by the millions during the dry season because they inhabit shallow streams and pools that aren't stable all year round. A few survive, and they rebuild the numbers, but for any given neon tetra, life is risky even without considering predators. In an aquarium, a neon should last a good couple of years, at least, hence we need to create something that is different to "the wild".

Returning to bumblebees. Schaefer, for example, says this: "I personally have caught these fishes on Sumatra and in India, where they always live in completely fresh water". However, he goes on to say, "From actual breeding reports we know ... that these fishes do best and breed in weakly brackish water". Schaefer suggests 5 to 10 parts per thousand of salt (where regular salt water is about 30 ppt, i.e., the gobies need about 1.003 to 1.006 SG).

It's complex. There's no right or wrong answer, and discussions and experimentation remain valuable. It has certainly turned out that glassfish and wrestling halfbeaks were totally erroneously described as brackish water fish, something I've actively stressed in the magazine articles on the subject that were published in PFK. Bumblebees are still debateable, with different people having different experiences. Keeping them in slightly brackish is a good default and will do no harm. But if you can keep a steady pH and hardness level, they are an option for the freshwater tank, too. From my own personal experience, keeping them in soft, acid water is possible, but not optimal (i.e., I have lost a suspiciously high number of them for me to be convinced that such conditions suit them as well as the alternatives*).

Cheers,

Neale

* I had bumblebees and Rhinogobius gobies in the tank, and one of the Rhinogoius developed a dropsy-like condition leading to death in about two weeks. Over the next few months, some of the other Rhinogobius as well as some of the bumblebees succumbed. Things have stabilised now, with no new fatalities. Because only the gobies developed this problem, I suspect it was a bacterial infection specific to them, but I cannot rule out that the conditions were simply wrong for both species (too warm for the Rhinogobius, too acid for the bumblebees). Hence my comment that soft, acid water might be harmful to these fish.
 
I dont have any doubts with your success with BBG's and soft/acidic waters nmonks. No offence to iJay but in the other thread he sounded like a novice BBG keeper, so I tried to persuade him from them in a tank with soft water and a neutral pH as it would be more difficult compared to hard alkaline FW or possibly slightly brackish. Not to mention the feeding problems that would arise.

Im actually quite interested in your theories nmonks. And I wouldnt doubt for a second that something you have said would be inaccurate. For someone like yourself keeping them in a soft/acidic tank would probably only prove unpromblematic, but for someone like iJay that appears to have no experience with BBG's it would be a very different story.
 
I dont have any doubts with your success with BBG's and soft/acidic waters nmonks. No offence to iJay but in the other thread he sounded like a novice BBG keeper, so I tried to persuade him from them in a tank with soft water and a neutral pH as it would be more difficult compared to hard alkaline FW or possibly slightly brackish. Not to mention the feeding problems that would arise.

Im actually quite interested in your theories nmonks. And I wouldnt doubt for a second that something you have said would be inaccurate. For someone like yourself keeping them in a soft/acidic tank would probably only prove unpromblematic, but for someone like iJay that appears to have no experience with BBG's it would be a very different story.

no offense taken mate!
i am indeed a novice BBG (planning-to-be) keeper.
as i mentioned on the previous thread, i am still grateful that you enlighten me to this new specie of fish..
i only replied to this thread (my deepest apologies to Rez for hijacking his thread) because the confusion arised again..
but then again, after the confusion, i am now more enlightened ....
thank you very much to all of you (nmonks, AMS, Rez)..
:drinks:
 

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