Brian's Fishless Cycle

[brian2708]

Having bought a 60l tank and stocking through bad advice, I recently bought a 200l tank and setup second user.

My 60l tank had probably been setup for about a month, and was not cycling properly (ammonia was not going to 0, 0.25 is the lowest it's ever been). The filter media from this tank and fish were transfered over to my 200l tank which is still not cycling properly after 3 weeks and media from the previous setup.

60l tank empty. Filter placed back in it. Bottle of ammonia purchased. Temperature set to 29C.The process begins!!

Tap water parameters:
Straight from tap:
Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
PH: 7.2

Daily Tests
Day 1, 20th May 2011 - 22:00: **Dosed with 5ppm Ammonia**: Ammonia 5ppm
Day 2, 21st May 2011 - 22:00: Ammonia 5ppm
Day 3, 22nd May 2011 - 21:00: Ammonia 5ppm
Day 4, 23rd May 2011 - 22:00: Ammonia 0.25ppm = Nitrite 5ppm: **Dosed back upto 5ppm Ammonia**
Day 5, 24th May 2011 - 21:00: Ammonia 1ppm = Nitrite >5ppm
Day 6, 25th May 2011 - 23:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 0ppm = Nitrate 40 - 80ppm**Dosed back upto 5ppm Ammonia**

Day 7, 26th May 2011 AM - 08:30: Ammonia 3ppm = Nitrite 2ppm
Day 7, 26th May 2011 PM - 22:20: Ammonia 2ppm = Nitrite 0ppm

Day 8, 27th May 2011 AM - 08.30: Ammonia 2ppm = Nitrite 0ppm
Day 8, 27th May 2011 PM - 20.30: Ammonia 2ppm = Nitrite 0ppm pH6

Day 9, 28th May 2011 - 18:00: **Dosed back upto 5ppm Ammonia** **1tsp Bicarbonate of Soda added** Ammonia 5ppm = Nitrite 0ppm = pH 8.2
Day 10, 29th May 2011 - 14:00: Ammonia 5ppm = Nitrite 1ppm = pH 7.6 - 7.8
Day 11, 30th May 2011 - 22:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 0ppm = pH 7.6 - 7.8 **Dosed back upto 5ppm Ammonia**

Day 12, 31st May 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 3ppm = Nitrite 2ppm
Day 12, 31st May 2011PM - 20:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite >5ppm **Dosed to 2-3ppm Ammonia**

Day 13, 1st June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 0.25ppm
Day 13, 1st June 2011PM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia**

Day 14, 2nd June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0.50ppm = Nitrite >5ppm
Day 14, 2nd June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia** = Nitrite 0ppm

Day 15, 3rd June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 1ppm = Nitrite >5ppm
Day 15, 3rd June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia** = Nitrite 0ppm

Day 16, 4th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite >5ppm
Day 16, 4th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia** = Nitrite 0ppm

Day 17, 5th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 2ppm = Nitrite 0
Day 17, 5th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia 1tsp Bicarb added** = Nitrite 0ppm pH 6

Day 18, 6th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 3ppm
Day 18, 6th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia = Nitrite 0ppm pH 7.6

Day 19, 7th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 3ppm
Day 19, 7th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia = Nitrite 0ppm pH 7.2

Day 20, 8th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 2ppm
Day 20, 8th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia = Nitrite 0ppm pH 7

Day 21, 9th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 0.25ppm **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia
Day 21, 9th June 2011AM - 20:00: **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia 1tsp Bicarb added** = Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0.25ppm pH 6.8

Day 21, 9th June 2011AM - 08:00: Ammonia 0ppm = Nitrite 0ppm **Dosed to ~4ppm Ammonia

Here's hoping that with a slightly already used filter, there will be at least some bacteria in there. Come on you bummers, go forth and multiply!! hehe. Once this cycle is complete, I will transfer the media to the tank with the fish in (still doing water changes on this one to keep ammonia down as little as possible), then i will nick some media from the large tank again, place back in the 60l, make sure it is cycling and have some guppy fun in the 60l.

 

[waterdrop]

Brian, I suggest you edit in a bold line near where you tell us the 29C temp and tell us more clearly "Fishless Cycle of 60L tank" and then also have a line or two of results on your tap water parameters. It is also faster for those of us who try to catch many of these threads if the primary start of each line is Day X, 24Hr-test (or later, 12Hr-test) with the actual date and time demoted to something in parenthesis next to this. For each log line of data it goes much faster if we can see this up front rather than having to "think" about it and it also is a help to you too eventually. It also helps to somehow (either a comment on the log line or a short line of its own) explicitly note when a dose (and how much) has been added.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[brian2708]

Thanks waterdrop. Edited. I'm so excited about this as I know I'm going to be doing it properly and my fish should hopefully be happy with the end result.

I have so many friends at work who have fish tanks, who when I talk to them about it, they do not even know what cycling is, or even changing water frequently! They won't listen.

 

[The chilly dipper]

Thanks waterdrop. Edited. I'm so excited about this as I know I'm going to be doing it properly and my fish should hopefully be happy with the end result.

I have so many friends at work who have fish tanks, who when I talk to them about it, they do not even know what cycling is, or even changing water frequently! They won't listen.

im very exited in the coming weeks to hear how your tank develops

i too have alot of friends at work and home who have fish tanks,they have no clue about fish keeping.
they wonder why they lose fish ??

although ,how some of them have kept a tank "healthy" for so long
is a mystery.
kind of brings all the pain and anguish i see on here down to a few words.....

those lucky bastar*s
how in the heck have they not ran into any troubles with they're tanks

there is no justice in the world brian lol at least were doing things by the book.

 

[brian2708]

Ahhh, I know it's early days, but I'm so pleased to see activity already.

 

[waterdrop]

Excellent, log looks great now!

It's not completely surprising that you sometimes see plants and animals survive what you know to be possibly poor care. Evolution has made most living things very tough.

But toughness is relative and the fish we all enjoy keeping are types of animals that still live much more closely tied to their environment than we do (although we are tied too on some level) and understanding enough to know what constitutes the basics for them is a huge thing.

I hope that your efforts will be rewarded. It makes sense to have some skepticism about the things you read on a forum but once you have put some of these principles into practice on your own tank and have seen the fish be vibrant and healthy, there's no looking back.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I wouldn't say that fish are any more tied to their environment than people are to theirs. It appears that way superficially, because they live in our tank water and they are subject to what we allow to go into or build up in the tank. It would be the exact same for people who would be kept in a small enclosed space - the space station, for example. The difference is that we understand a lot more about our environment and how to regulate it, than we understand about the fishes environment. (The astronauts also can communicate their symptoms of problems to experts for a rapid resolution to the problem, whereas fish display symptoms to an untrained aquarist who has to guess at the problem based on what has worked for them in the past in a similar set of circumstances.) But if there were not a properly functioning filter on the space station, the astronauts would die of carbon dioxide poisoning, the same as the fish with ammonia. We, of course, don't have to worry about that very much normally, because we aren't in an enclosed space where only certain things are allowed to enter or leave. We have a large amount of trees and other plants (oceanic algae primarily) around to help us with our carbon dioxide, the same as the fish in the wild have a large amount of things available to help with the ammonia.

 

[The chilly dipper]

I wouldn't say that fish are any more tied to their environment than people are to theirs. It appears that way superficially, because they live in our tank water and they are subject to what we allow to go into or build up in the tank. It would be the exact same for people who would be kept in a small enclosed space - the space station, for example. The difference is that we understand a lot more about our environment and how to regulate it, than we understand about the fishes environment. (The astronauts also can communicate their symptoms of problems to experts for a rapid resolution to the problem, whereas fish display symptoms to an untrained aquarist who has to guess at the problem based on what has worked for them in the past in a similar set of circumstances.) But if there were not a properly functioning filter on the space station, the astronauts would die of carbon dioxide poisoning, the same as the fish with ammonia. We, of course, don't have to worry about that very much normally, because we aren't in an enclosed space where only certain things are allowed to enter or leave. We have a large amount of trees and other plants (oceanic algae primarily) around to help us with our carbon dioxide, the same as the fish in the wild have a large amount of things available to help with the ammonia.

exellent you guys,really beautifull stuff.

brian- we have philosophers among us.

you guys,all that made good sense.

 

[brian2708]

Last night, my ammonia dropped from 5ppm, to 1ppm. Should I increase the amount of ammonia back upto 5ppm? I'm assuming that tonight, it will probably be 0ppm for ammonia. Should I put it back upto 3 or 4ppm? I'm assuming I don't want to keep adding 5ppm ammonia, as this is only increasing my nitrite load in the long run, and now I just want to keep the ammonia eating bacteria ticking over until my nitrifying bacteria are settled.

Comments, sugestion.

 

[L_Plates]

Test later and if its dropped redose back up to 5ppm if its at 0 or there abouts.

 

[brian2708]

Test later and if its dropped redose back up to 5ppm if its at 0 or there abouts.

Thanks. I understand to redose when it's at 0. Is it always try to redose to 5ppm, or should it be slightly lower once ammonia is crunching in 24hours?

 

[L_Plates]

Looking back on my log here, http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/356800-l-plates-fishless-cycle-log-complete/ i was dosing to 3ppm when its was eating it in 24hrs.

Hope this helps.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Test later and if its dropped redose back up to 5ppm if its at 0 or there abouts.

Thanks. I understand to redose when it's at 0. Is it always try to redose to 5ppm, or should it be slightly lower once ammonia is crunching in 24hours?

Yes, lower the dose to 2 or 3 ppm once the ammonia is processed in 24 hours. The bigger issue is that the N-bacs that you are trying to cultivate prefer lower concentrations of nitrite than you are going to have. So, once the ammonia drops in 24 hours, you might need to do a water change to lower that level so that it is back on the readable scale (meaning no more than 5ppm). Once the nitrite hits zero, you start testing every 12 hours (only dosing at the 24 hours mark) and slowly increase the dose back up to 4-5ppm. When both hit zero in 12 hours for a solid week, its time to get the fish!

 

[brian2708]

Some interesting results tonight. Bit skeptical.. hmmm..

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Are you sure that the nitrite is ZERO? With a used filter, assuming the media was kept wet the whole time, and it wasn't too long between when it was last used and when you started dosing ammonia, you could have a pretty nice colony of bacteria there already. Did the drops turn purple in the bottom of the tube before you shook it and then it turned a weird grayish color? If so that is a reading "off the scale" meaning far above 5 ppm.