Breeding For More Peaceful Temperment

[kiwifeather]

So I have been thinking about this today, is it possible to breed more peaceful bettas, by breeding the more mellow ones together and so on? Breeding for temperament is nothing new. We do it all the time in pure-bred dogs (I am an Italian Greyhound exhibitor and breeder). If they made them more aggressive, then surely to opposite is possible??? Has anyone ever tried?

Just curious, I am no fish breeder (though I'd like to give it a go one day when I am more prepared for it). Haha maybe when the time comes I'll go with my really lax crowntail boy Atlas and Artemis, my sweet-natured veil-tail girl and see!

 

[Baccus]

More than likely you could selectively breed for a more docile fighter but because they have already been bred for so long to be aggressive I think there would be a lot of trial and error as well as culling of undesirable traits much like any other selective breeding program. And then the question arises are the fish mellow because of breeding and water conditions and will they revert to being more traditional fighters if moved to totally new conditions? Nature vs Nurture so to speak.

 

[kiwifeather]

More than likely you could selectively breed for a more docile fighter but because they have already been bred for so long to be aggressive I think there would be a lot of trial and error as well as culling of undesirable traits much like any other selective breeding program. And then the question arises are the fish mellow because of breeding and water conditions and will they revert to being more traditional fighters if moved to totally new conditions? Nature vs Nurture so to speak.

Yes, I agree on that. It would take a big investment of time and a great amount of monitoring and documentation (and money probably!). It would take many generations I think, but I'd say it is possible, after all, after many generations they made foxes that were tame on one end, and highly aggressive on the other, even more so than wild foxes. Yes, the nature vs nurture thing would certainly be a factor to consider, perhaps some experiments with the mellow fry in different conditions to see if they retain said "mellowness"?

It would be interesting to see someone attempt this, even on a small scale, I must say... I know there are lots of of people out there who would love to own bettas who are a little more chilled-out.

 

[Baccus]

It would be great to be able to keep males and females together without fear of a midnight barney between them.

I know the foxes your talking about and it is interesting to note the tame/ docile ones usually have deformed tails or hold them at odd angles and that a docile female can throw both docile and wild cubs. The wild like cubs never tame but the docile ones make great pets. It was also in the fox fur farms (semi- domestication) that other colours started turning up too. So maybe to begin attempting a gentler Betta some research needs to be done into the original wild forms colours and fin types and work forwards from that.
And I agree it would take a lot of money and patience.

 

[lilfishie]

My 1st pair were very good, no aggression when breeding, both came out with perfect finnage, there fry however are pretty aggressive that said he's not bad with other Bettas just other fish!

 

[OldMan47]

I fully support your desire to breed less conspecific aggressive Betta splendens. As others have said, the "fighter" breeders have dominated the betta breeding for far too long. To me that means that choosing a less aggressive betta and using it to breed less and less aggressive males would be a giant step forward for the hobby. It is not only possible but is a good thing to pursue, IMO. Can you even begin to imagine the beauty of a tank holding a "colony" of mixed male and female Betta splendens? That is not at all possible today, but who knows what can be accomplished with selective breeding. After all, the fish we have today, were developed from much less aggressive wild type bettas.

 

[sona98765]

Some very lucky breeders turn out with Hemophroditic(I think that is what it is called)? Betta that is peaceful with all other bettas. If you could get a female and male betta that are Hemophroditic then maybe their fry will be the same. And then breed the Hemophroditic fry on and on and then maybe you will get the peaceful Betta you have been dreaming about.

Oh and btw I have 1 male and 4 females living together now for about 3 months and whenever they are separated they become depressed. But maybe because the male is old, he has been with me for over 2 years, and anyway all bettas have different personalities.

 

[OldMan47]

Well done Sona. I know I will be in the minority here, but if you have succeeded in housing males and females together, you are much farther along than most of us. In my own tanks, placing any female with my males would result in extreme damage to one or another of the fish. If you have managed to avoid that damage, you are on the path to helping us all understand how to house males and females together. What are you doing differently that we can all learn from?

 

[Man of fish]

My betta is definately aggressive and I'd love peaceful bettas. Mine flares at pictures of bettas

 

[lilfishie]

Apparently leaving the male with the fry makes them less aggressive as he is the dominant fish and they are very unlikely to challenge him, but its also risky, he could eat them all

I plan on trying this method with 1 of my spawns

 

[Baccus]

I think leaving offspring with one or both parents maybe on the right track (provided there is enough tank/ territory room), as well as fish I also keep birds. One of the species of Finch that I keep is called a Cuban finch which are apparently renound for attacking even killing other birds with yellow feathers and even the males will battle to the death. I had only one pair of these in a mixed avairy of other finches and so far they have bred producing first one female chick and now a male chick. The male chick has matured and now has adult plummage but his father still has not shown any aggression towards him, also in the avairy I have Gouldian finches (wild types but still with vibrant yellow) and even these the Cuban finch has not looked at attacking. I also keep king quail and usually any male offspring the father quail will only tolerate in his territory until the young male matures. I have found with the quail that if previous chicks are left with the parents when new chicks are produced the older chicks help in baby raising duties and make better parents themselves, also like rats and guniea pigs provided the males have never been with a female you can safely keep a group of males together. This how ever changes once a male has been with a female (mated). Just something that might help work out a way of calming bettas to being more friendly community fish.

 

[sona98765]

Well done Sona. I know I will be in the minority here, but if you have succeeded in housing males and females together, you are much farther along than most of us. In my own tanks, placing any female with my males would result in extreme damage to one or another of the fish. If you have managed to avoid that damage, you are on the path to helping us all understand how to house males and females together. What are you doing differently that we can all learn from?

Thank you,
When I got the females they were all living together(only female tank) and then I placed then in a tank with some hornwort. I left them in there for a few weeks and then I noticed my male betta was feeling depressed and he wouldn't eat much anymore so I put him in the tank before feeding time. At first he lay in the corner but 5 minutes later he was up and swimming all over the tank. He would try to impress them for the first few days but they weren't impressed so he gave up. But like I said before, all bettas have different personalities, right?

It might be because the females were used to be living with other females they didn't mind him.

 

[kiwifeather]

Really interesting to see the comments on this. I agree that the time where people breeding bettas to be aggressive on purpose is past and that it would be wonderful to be able to keep males and females together! I have had a male in my sorority temporarily (3 weeks) until I could get him a new tank, and there were no issues with them. It was probably because they were all siblings.

lilfishie I would certainly love to see the outcome of that, make sure you make a journal for it!

 

[lilfishie]

I certainly will be need to decide on which male, my dumbo is very calm but if i get fry from him don't know if I`'d risk it since there still rare here

 

[sona98765]

But if we want peaceful bettas
Then we need to keep on breeding the calmer ones over and over again until the aggressiveness is bred out of them( might take years )
But in the end is worth it
Anyway you can keep wild bettas together in tanks but not captive ones so why not breed a wild with a captive?