Bolivan Ram With Panda Dwarf Cichlid

[Robbo85]

Hi,
 
I am trying to keep my 40G tank a SA species tank and have recently been given a Bolivian Ram as a suggestion to add as I wanted a slightly larger fish to go with the rest of my community. but I already have a male / female pair of apistogramma nijsseni (Panda Dwarf Cichlid) will the Bolivian Ram Clash with these?
 
rest of the tank is
 
10 cardinal tetras, (will be increasing to 16 or more)
4 panda corries (will be increasing to 6) 
1 pleco
3 golden barbs ( I know not SA but a rescue from a family members tank)
2 apistogramma nijsseni
6 marble hatchet
 
 

 

[Mark Z.]

I don't know about the fish, but your aquarium is beautiful!

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, given the tank size and decoration (I agree it's stunning) with plenty of plants and hidey holes I would think that this will work fine. Cichlids are territorial, some more so than others. Provided you allow them different area's to establish that territory it can work. The Bolivian ram is a reasonably easy going cichlid and apisto's also tend to be fairly easy going too and so once they work out who's spot is who's they should be okay.
 
I kept a breeding pair of Bolivian rams with a breeding pair of laetacara curvicep cichlids in a Rio 180 and they coped fine. The rams established territory on the left side and curviceps took the right side and there was very little bickering.
 
What I would say is apisto's like cave type territory and so I would provide an flower pot on it's side or something similar so that it can establish this as it's territory. The ram tends not to be too fussy about these things and so it should just allow the apisto have it's little 'house' without argument 
 
Good luck with them ... the Bolivian ram is a lovely fish

 

[Robbo85]

Hi, given the tank size and decoration (I agree it's stunning) with plenty of plants and hidey holes I would think that this will work fine. Cichlids are territorial, some more so than others. Provided you allow them different area's to establish that territory it can work. The Bolivian ram is a reasonably easy going cichlid and apisto's also tend to be fairly easy going too and so once they work out who's spot is who's they should be okay.
 
I kept a breeding pair of Bolivian rams with a breeding pair of laetacara curvicep cichlids in a Rio 180 and they coped fine. The rams established territory on the left side and curviceps took the right side and there was very little bickering.
 
What I would say is apisto's like cave type territory and so I would provide an flower pot on it's side or something similar so that it can establish this as it's territory. The ram tends not to be too fussy about these things and so it should just allow the apisto have it's little 'house' without argument 
 
Good luck with them ... the Bolivian ram is a lovely fish

Thank you !
 
Already got the caves sorted.

 My apistos have laid eggs in this before but then a snail got passed them and ate them up, hoping they will try again. Also I have ordered some terracotta cichlid caves from ebay so will be lots of caves for all.

 

[Byron]

I tend to agree, though I would first say it is not something I would plan for; mixing different species of cichlids is never a good idea (except for African rift lake tanks obviously).  Male cichlids are territorial, and while this can vary from individual to individual for various reasons, it should always be kept in mind as a basic trait of the fish.  Females though can be downright nasty when spawning.  The larger, meaning length, of the tank, the more this may work.
 
I have maintained (and spawned) both species mentioned, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus and Apistogramma nijsseni.  Given the temperament of the fish I had, I would not have combined them willingly.  If you do, observe things and be prepared to intervene.
 
Byron.

 

[Robbo85]

I tend to agree, though I would first say it is not something I would plan for; mixing different species of cichlids is never a good idea (except for African rift lake tanks obviously).  Male cichlids are territorial, and while this can vary from individual to individual for various reasons, it should always be kept in mind as a basic trait of the fish.  Females though can be downright nasty when spawning.  The larger, meaning length, of the tank, the more this may work.
 
I have maintained (and spawned) both species mentioned, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus and Apistogramma nijsseni.  Given the temperament of the fish I had, I would not have combined them willingly.  If you do, observe things and be prepared to intervene.
 
Byron.

Thank you, I will bear that in mind.

 

[hobby5]

And where do the cories go? I don't think it is a good idea. Also there will be the possibility that one cichlid species might dominate the other. Imho it is not a good idea to mix cories and cichlids in a rather small tank. I might be done in really large tanks, but the cories always suffer somewhat.
 
Btw, I like your tank too.

 

[Akasha72]

hobby5 - I've always kept cories with cichlids and never had a problem. My cories have lived with a breeding pair of Bolivian rams, my curvicep breeding pair, electric blue rams and now a pair of angelfish... absolutely no issue at all ever

 

[Byron]

Now that corys have been brought into the frame...I would say that if you intend raising Apistogramma fry, with corys present this is highly unlikely to be successful.  Corys are nocturnal, when the cichlid parents are resting/sleeping, and the eggs usually disappear before hatching.  Keep in mind I am talking Apistogramma, that spawn on the substrate, in caves, on wood, in depressions, on leaves, or whatever.  But so do the Bolivians; my Bolivian Ram pair spawned four times, and the eggs only survived to hatching once, but the corys got those fry on the third night nonetheless.
 
Aside from the spawning/raising fry issue, corys will get pked at by cichlids, but this doesn't seem to harm them.  My Bolivian regularly shoved corys out of the way when he was feeding from a substrate tab, and interestingly he took much more of a dislike to the spotted species; the C. adolfoi, panda and metae were generally all but ignored, but the spotted species were really sent packing.  And in the other tank when the A. nijsseni spawned, the panda corys really got it.  I don't think there was any physical damage, none evident anyway, but the head ramming of the corys by the tiny female guarding eggs was very determined--and momentarily effective.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

I found pretty much the same with mine, Byron. The cichlids would charge at them and the cories would swim away with no harm done. Curviceps and the Bolivians both dug pits in the sand for the wrigglers and they kept the cories away effectively. It was once the fry got to free swimming stage that the number declined over a period of about 4 or 5 nights and I blamed the tetra's and harlequins for that

 

[Robbo85]

Hi,
 
no im not planning on raising fry specifically but if it happened that would be fine. I have never took steps to raise fry but have had Panda Cories , cherry barbs and zebra danios born and raised in my tanks previously.

 

[Robbo85]

Hi so if you haven't read my other thread my female panda apistogramma died

  , im still planning to get a Bolivian at some point but should I get another female panda or not, the male seems to be doing fine on his own but want to keep him happy I was just wondering if there would be less aggression if he was kept on his own with a Bolivian or not?

 

[Akasha72]

Hi again, if you were planning to breed from the apisto's then you could try re-adding a new female but I would get a return guarentee from the store before attempting it. The reason I say that is cichlids are territorial and in general it's best to allow them to choose their own mate as forcing a mate on them can lead to fights breaking out which can result in him killing the female. One alternative would be to speak with the lfs and ask if they will work with you to find him a new mate. By this I mean allowing you to take 2 or 3 females home, add all of them and wait for signs of a pairing and then return the 'spares'. Some fish stores would be willing to allow this but not all as it does not make good business sense. 
 
If you wern't planning on breeding and the male is fine by himself then I would leave things as they are.
 
With regard to him being alone with a bolivian ... it may or may not work ... it can work and has worked for others (myself included) but as explained in previous posts, with cichlids nothing is cut and dried
 
Not sure if that helps though!