Blue Lobster Fw

[ocmsolidsnake]

Do you think it would be okay to put the lobster in a 25g with an oscar, he is picking on my other fish in his current tank?

 

[raptorrex]

Do you think it would be okay to put the lobster in a 25g with an oscar, he is picking on my other fish in his current tank?

not a good idea

 

[raptorrex]

yes they do kill fish and eat them mainly bottom dwellers but will kill other fish if they get the chance

they should not be kept with fish dont belive everything they tell you in fish shops

I take it you keep Cray? if not perhaps you should listen to people who do! if you are going to give advice for gods sake make it correct, or keep it to yourself!

they can be perfectly safe with other fish, mine is kept with cory, plecs, cae, crab, shrimp, pictus cats and many others. as yet i have not had so much as a nipped fin, that's for going on six months, but a crab did lose a leg in one incident. i do know of Cray that are not safe with plastic plants never mind fish. but to brand them all as killers is just plain stupid. there are more than a few members who keep Cray in some sort of communiy, though its often better not to mention it as the un-knowledgeable have a habit of venting their spleens on the subject.
the choice is yours, given the right situation and Cray personality, these animals can live their whole life's in a community and never do more than take very sick or dead fish.

§tudz check your pm i have a site for you, and some people with real personal experiences of Cray not what they have heard.

Rather than a few peoples' short term personal experiences, why not listen to some experts, such as Matt Clarke writing for Practical Fish Keeping:


One final thought, there is every chance that whatever the OP has is not Cherax quadricarinatus as DEFRA know many people are importing banned species tot he UK for the aquarium and food trade either through ignorance or a lack of respect for the law. PFK mention no one has ever been sold a FW cray and then contacted them and been able to supply a scientific name, so one cannot be very sure even what species is coming in or is bought by someone.

Based on the experiences and writings of experts, I must agree with T1 and advise against keeping such an animal with fish.

peoples short term experiences lol most have had their Cray on community tanks for years. only i am a short timer. though i accept your point. i never did say just tip a Cray in a tank. the age of both tank and inhabitants, and the personality of both fish and Cray are important factors, observation an the ability to take corrective action, should things go wrong is all important too.

the id on even young redclaws is easy, a quick look on the net, will give even a first time visitor no problems iding. your advice is well taken, and here in lies the difference T1 made a positive statement, that is untrue

thing with the PFK is, they cant even mention the possibility of Cray in community, if they did and a load of people lost fish, they may well be liable, and it would deffo hurt their rep. surly it would be better to visit Cray based sites and get the opinions and experiences of people who do try this! which is just what i did.

yes they do kill fish and eat them mainly bottom dwellers but will kill other fish if they get the chance

they should not be kept with fish dont belive everything they tell you in fish shops

I take it you keep Cray? if not perhaps you should listen to people who do! if you are going to give advice for gods sake make it correct, or keep it to yourself!

they can be perfectly safe with other fish, mine is kept with cory, plecs, cae, crab, shrimp, pictus cats and many others. as yet i have not had so much as a nipped fin, that's for going on six months, but a crab did lose a leg in one incident. i do know of Cray that are not safe with plastic plants never mind fish. but to brand them all as killers is just plain stupid. there are more than a few members who keep Cray in some sort of communiy, though its often better not to mention it as the un-knowledgeable have a habit of venting their spleens on the subject.
the choice is yours, given the right situation and Cray personality, these animals can live their whole life's in a community and never do more than take very sick or dead fish.

§tudz check your pm i have a site for you, and some people with real personal experiences of Cray not what they have heard.

yes i have kept one and for alot longer than 6 months

and i only give advice on things i know something about thats why you dont see me posting in every thread

maybe you should do some more resurch before you give any advice yourself or keep your WRONG advice to yourself

the very reason i put the cray in the tank, is because i took advice and did a lot of research, before doing it. what got me was you made the comment without the prefix of "in my experience" or "in my opinion". as s statement of fact your comment was indeed untrue. as a statement of opinion or experience it is quite true. and surly you mean "keep your WRONG, in my opinion, advice to yourself".

 

[T1KARMANN]

i can be asked to qoute your long winded post

they shouldnt be mixed with fish why risk it if their is a chance of them killing the fish its not like the wild were the fish has plenty of room to escape you are talking about keeping them together in a small tank like a 25g

you are putting the fish under alot of stress knowing their is something that can kill and eat them all the time

how would you like to be locked in a room with a big bear it may not eat you but you wouldnt be happy knowing one day it may catch you

i see this sort of thing all the time with people wanting the best of both worlds trying to keep crays or turtles with fish

 

[InaneCathode]

You can trim there claws though, can't you?

That's a little barbaric.

As far as i know, crayfish claws arent like beaks or nails, the shape of them is the exact shape of the flesh underneath. If you were to try to 'trim' them, you'd end up cutting them open, exposing the flesh underneath...

 

[andywg]

thing with the PFK is, they cant even mention the possibility of Cray in community, if they did and a load of people lost fish, they may well be liable, and it would deffo hurt their rep. surly it would be better to visit Cray based sites and get the opinions and experiences of people who do try this! which is just what i did.

But you are saying there is no risk.

If there is no risk then they can say there have been some successes but to expect some problems. Comments like "They are not safe to be kept in the aquarium alongside fish and will definitely try to eat most fish" indicates to me there is very little doubt as to the outcome. If there really is no risk then you would think that PFK might at least say you can keep them if you keep an eye on them. A magazine is hardly going to want to print completely wrong information and it is certainly not going to be liable for a cray eating something after they say it probably won't but keep an eye on things.

Visiting sites of amateur aquarists is not a great idea at all. Forums can be full of people who all give bad advice. I know one or two that are absolutely shocking on the information given out regarding marine predators and would far rather trust the writings of an expert such as Scott Michael over some guy on the internet posting about his one off situation.

PFK didn't even mention a community, they said no fish, ever.

Bottom line is that your statement is impossible to prove wrong until a fish is eaten. Almost all members on this forum want to avoid such a happenstance and rather than go with your experiences that after 6 months everything still appears ok, I would go with the experiences of others on this board that cray will eat live fish and not keep the two together.

 

[raptorrex]

thing with the PFK is, they cant even mention the possibility of Cray in community, if they did and a load of people lost fish, they may well be liable, and it would deffo hurt their rep. surly it would be better to visit Cray based sites and get the opinions and experiences of people who do try this! which is just what i did.

But you are saying there is no risk.

If there is no risk then they can say there have been some successes but to expect some problems. Comments like "They are not safe to be kept in the aquarium alongside fish and will definitely try to eat most fish" indicates to me there is very little doubt as to the outcome. If there really is no risk then you would think that PFK might at least say you can keep them if you keep an eye on them. A magazine is hardly going to want to print completely wrong information and it is certainly not going to be liable for a cray eating something after they say it probably won't but keep an eye on things.

Visiting sites of amateur aquarists is not a great idea at all. Forums can be full of people who all give bad advice. I know one or two that are absolutely shocking on the information given out regarding marine predators and would far rather trust the writings of an expert such as Scott Michael over some guy on the internet posting about his one off situation.

PFK didn't even mention a community, they said no fish, ever.

Bottom line is that your statement is impossible to prove wrong until a fish is eaten. Almost all members on this forum want to avoid such a happenstance and rather than go with your experiences that after 6 months everything still appears ok, I would go with the experiences of others on this board that cray will eat live fish and not keep the two together.

no point falling out, but i did not say there was no risk, and was at pain to point out that there are things that need to be done to try this. as for visiting armature aqurists sites, i never have. the sites i used are run by professional Cray and fish, farmers or breeders, and are used by people with years of experience. thinking of it i dont think i have ever visited a armature site, they simply dont have the information i need.

as for stressing fish!!! that a statement of fact that should really be a statement of opinion. yet again! as people see my fish on many forums one thing they tend to say is how healthy my fish look, that tends not to indicate any stress. or do fish kept with Cray suffer from stress but not show it?

I have to agree that Cray on the whole SHOULD not be kept with fish, not can not be kept. and that Cray MAY well eat or attack, fish. not will eat or attack. the only people who have experience of this are the people who do it, as you refuse, with good reason, to do it your are not in the position to, give advice other than "i would not" or i "would advise against". those who do, however you feel about them, are the only ones who can.

As i have said i accept all your comments, but insist that making statements, of fact, is incorrect, all you should do is make statements of opinion. and i find it strange that you seem to think the advice given on this forum, is somehow more valid than, that given on others, just seems a bit arrogant to me.

it was the comment about this, on this forum, that made me look into it further. so advice given here, did avoid me making a big mistake. advice from other sources, allowed me to see that, with luck, research and work with observation, it can be possible to do it. but this does not stop me having a 180ltr tank ready for the Cray should any problems develop. i have no wish to have harm come to Cray or fish.

 

[T1KARMANN]

thing with the PFK is, they cant even mention the possibility of Cray in community, if they did and a load of people lost fish, they may well be liable, and it would deffo hurt their rep. surly it would be better to visit Cray based sites and get the opinions and experiences of people who do try this! which is just what i did.

But you are saying there is no risk.

If there is no risk then they can say there have been some successes but to expect some problems. Comments like "They are not safe to be kept in the aquarium alongside fish and will definitely try to eat most fish" indicates to me there is very little doubt as to the outcome. If there really is no risk then you would think that PFK might at least say you can keep them if you keep an eye on them. A magazine is hardly going to want to print completely wrong information and it is certainly not going to be liable for a cray eating something after they say it probably won't but keep an eye on things.

Visiting sites of amateur aquarists is not a great idea at all. Forums can be full of people who all give bad advice. I know one or two that are absolutely shocking on the information given out regarding marine predators and would far rather trust the writings of an expert such as Scott Michael over some guy on the internet posting about his one off situation.

PFK didn't even mention a community, they said no fish, ever.

Bottom line is that your statement is impossible to prove wrong until a fish is eaten. Almost all members on this forum want to avoid such a happenstance and rather than go with your experiences that after 6 months everything still appears ok, I would go with the experiences of others on this board that cray will eat live fish and not keep the two together.

no point falling out, but i did not say there was no risk, and was at pain to point out that there are things that need to be done to try this. as for visiting armature aqurists sites, i never have. the sites i used are run by professional Cray and fish, farmers or breeders, and are used by people with years of experience. thinking of it i dont think i have ever visited a armature site, they simply dont have the information i need.

as for stressing fish!!! that a statement of fact that should really be a statement of opinion. yet again! as people see my fish on many forums one thing they tend to say is how healthy my fish look, that tends not to indicate any stress. or do fish kept with Cray suffer from stress but not show it?

I have to agree that Cray on the whole SHOULD not be kept with fish, not can not be kept. and that Cray MAY well eat or attack, fish. not will eat or attack. the only people who have experience of this are the people who do it, as you refuse, with good reason, to do it your are not in the position to, give advice other than "i would not" or i "would advise against". those who do, however you feel about them, are the only ones who can.

As i have said i accept all your comments, but insist that making statements, of fact, is incorrect, all you should do is make statements of opinion. and i find it strange that you seem to think the advice given on this forum, is somehow more valid than, that given on others, just seems a bit arrogant to me.

it was the comment about this, on this forum, that made me look into it further. so advice given here, did avoid me making a big mistake. advice from other sources, allowed me to see that, with luck, research and work with observation, it can be possible to do it. but this does not stop me having a 180ltr tank ready for the Cray should any problems develop. i have no wish to have harm come to Cray or fish.

do as you wish they are your fish and as you are a long term cray keeper 6 months im sure you must know all their is to know about them buy now

most people who buy them do so on impulse (oh thats diffrent lets get one)

but their is a risk and from what i know for a fact is if their is a risk its normally best to avoid it

so before anyone buys a cray they should ask themselfs how much do they like the fish they keep as their is a chance (big chance) they will get eatern

 

[Fella]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=128872

 

[raptorrex]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=128872

wrong Crayfish, illegal in the uk. and its coldwater too, Cray need well oxygenated water, as the temp of the water rises, the amount of o2 water can absorb goes down. so coldwater fish or Cray will be very stressed in a Tropical tank. water temp rises also trigger breading behaviour,in Cray, which with no outlet causes stress in the end too. lol this Cray is known to be irasable, with storys of it cracking heaters.

[
do as you wish they are your fish and as you are a long term cray keeper 6 months im sure you must know all their is to know about them buy now

most people who buy them do so on impulse (oh thats diffrent lets get one)

but their is a risk and from what i know for a fact is if their is a risk its normally best to avoid it

so before anyone buys a cray they should ask themselfs how much do they like the fish they keep as their is a chance (big chance) they will get eatern

the first lines are too childish to answer.

as for the rest i didnt just go out and buy one, i never recommend people to, and i always point out the risks.

 

[andywg]

wrong Crayfish, illegal in the uk

This does not mean they are not imported and sold in the UK as the legal one, as I mentioned above. Many of the illegal cray are still entering the UK destined for sale to aquarists, we still do not have an id on this cray yet, so cannot discount other cray just yet.

i never recommend people to, and i always point out the risks

This bothers me. You have stated they may eat a dead or ill fish, but never once stated they may go for live fish, despite expert advice to the contrary, and even talk about putting them in a community with no ripped fins, giving your 6 months worth experience as though it is a definitive piece on the behaviour of cray.

the first lines are too childish to answer.

After comments like

I take it you keep Cray? if not perhaps you should listen to people who do! if you are going to give advice for gods sake make it correct, or keep it to yourself!

...

there are more than a few members who keep Cray in some sort of communiy, though its often better not to mention it as the un-knowledgeable have a habit of venting their spleens on the subject.

before even finding out whether the person has experience of keeping cray, perhaps you no longer have the moral high ground to decide on what is childish or not?

Face it, you have aggressively stated an opinion yourself (that crays are perfectly fine in a community aquarium - later qualified by adding comments about ages and temperaments of fish and cray involved) and when someone has disagreed you have aggressively tried to shout them down and saying their comments are only opinion though never presented your statement as opinion - it was as if you were stating a fact and everyone else is just wrong.

This is one that will run and run, you know of people that have kept cray fine, I and T1 know of people who have had disasters with it. Simple fact is, if a number of people have had a disaster and a few people have had success, I know I would not advise on doing it.

 

[raptorrex]

wrong Crayfish, illegal in the uk

This does not mean they are not imported and sold in the UK as the legal one, as I mentioned above. Many of the illegal cray are still entering the UK destined for sale to aquarists, we still do not have an id on this cray yet, so cannot discount other cray just yet.

i never recommend people to, and i always point out the risks

This bothers me. You have stated they may eat a dead or ill fish, but never once stated they may go for live fish, despite expert advice to the contrary, and even talk about putting them in a community with no ripped fins, giving your 6 months worth experience as though it is a definitive piece on the behaviour of cray.

the first lines are too childish to answer.

After comments like

I take it you keep Cray? if not perhaps you should listen to people who do! if you are going to give advice for gods sake make it correct, or keep it to yourself!

...

there are more than a few members who keep Cray in some sort of communiy, though its often better not to mention it as the un-knowledgeable have a habit of venting their spleens on the subject.

before even finding out whether the person has experience of keeping cray, perhaps you no longer have the moral high ground to decide on what is childish or not?

Face it, you have aggressively stated an opinion yourself (that crays are perfectly fine in a community aquarium - later qualified by adding comments about ages and temperaments of fish and cray involved) and when someone has disagreed you have aggressively tried to shout them down and saying their comments are only opinion though never presented your statement as opinion - it was as if you were stating a fact and everyone else is just wrong.

This is one that will run and run, you know of people that have kept cray fine, I and T1 know of people who have had disasters with it. Simple fact is, if a number of people have had a disaster and a few people have had success, I know I would not advise on doing it.

lol quite true it will run and run, and i know people too who have had disasters, that's how i got interested in cray, helping someone who had put one in a tank and it destroyed a 8" plec.

and here's the rub, i know there are some people on this forum, who keep Cray in some sort of community. as i researched, i found that other people did too. its was also obvious, that many people had absolute disasters doing the same thing. the question was, why did it work for a few, and not for the many? so resolved to find out.

so i researched the subject, and indeed am still researching it. as i did my research , some common actions, seemed, to develop among the more successful tanks and one thing became clear among the real disasters.

I will continue to post on the state of my community, and you can be sure that both good and bad will be reported. it is after all people no the edge of any subject, who are most commonly the ones who expand the bounds of what is, our current knowledge. or who confirm it.

 

[steelhealr]

Hi..I've owned my blue lobster for over 2 years. I can tell you from experience:

1) they are opportunistic
2) the attack is swift, incisive and almost immediately deadly
3) they can climb up plants and drop down on fish
4) they dig up and eat plants and can upset your biotope
5) if the water is kept acidic, their shell softens and can 'dissolve' leaving them open to disease

Are they mostly 'benign'? Yes, but, my two kids watched in horror as one my of blue rams was 'rasped down' to nothing as I tried to save it.

Keep them in a species tank.

SH

 

[raptorrex]

just to get this clear you keep a Blue lobster Procamberus alleni?

if this is true we are talking about a different species. whilst i would not argue with any of your comments, as i have seen all the things you state.
[size=-1]Cherax quadricarinatus, the Australian Redclaw cray, is a tropical Cray, [/size]Procamberus alleni, is not. they live in different habitats, in the wild, indeed are from different continents, is it not safe to assume that they, whilst sharing common traits, could have different temperament too?

put simply not all species of fish act the same, im sure the same is true of all animals.

 

[steelhealr]

Understood, but the topic of this thread is Blue Lobster....this needs to be clear to any for informational purposes, Australian, US, UK or otherwise. SH