Black Phantom Tetra Tankmates?

[Talawah]

Hello!
I am new to fishforums and currently have a 90gal freshwater tank with a Fx4 filter, gravel substrate, 2x400w heaters (one set higher than the other in case of malfunction) and fake plants. My ph is 7.2 and temp 79-81F. I perform weekly 30% water changes.
Currently I only house 11 black phantom tetras and am looking for suggestions on tank mates. I am specifically looking for the largest possible ‘centerpiece’ fish that will not eat the tetras and can be housed singularly or in a group of 2 (or, if need be, 3).
I am also considering one or two more schools of fish that will get along with my tetras and either a group of true Julii (sp) corys and/or another bottom dwelling catfish.
Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!!

 

[Moony42]

Hi and welcome to TFF!!!

Black Phantom Tetras are also compatible with other peaceful fish but can be threatened by more aggressive species. Some good options for tankmates include other fish such as gouramis, danionins, rasboras, and cichlids.

Good luck man!!

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness) and pH of your water supply. This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

 

[Talawah]

Hi and welcome to the forum

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness) and pH of your water supply. This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Thank you for your reply!
I don’t have the exact dimensions of the width and height but it is 5feet long and between 18-20inches in both width and height (sorry I’m at work).
From the tap, my water hardness is 20mg/L and the pH is 7.3.

 

[Byron]

That's what we needed. Your water is very soft, so you can consider the soft water species which covers most fish from South America and SE Asia generally speaking. Avoid livebearers, and any other species needing harder water.

The Black Phantom remains in the lower half of the aquarium. This is worth keeping in mind, the placement of a species within the water column, so you don't end up with all the fish in the same level and nothing elsewhere.

Yu could do angelfish or discus, a group of five to seven of either (not both together), if they interest you. There are other small shoaling fish that will work with one but not both of these, due to temperature. Discus must have warmth (80+ F, 27+ C), angelfish are fine at more normal tropical temperatures (high 70'sF, 25-26 C). A degree or two might not seem like much to us, but to the fish it can be life or death; being ectothermic, the temperature of the water drives their metabolism and their physiology is designed for fairly specific temperatures.

The above was thinking South American; if SE Asian, gourami perhaps, in a group of five to eight depending upon species; some are much more aggressive than others. Pearl Gourami are fairly peaceful and a real beauty. Some of the rasboras would work, or some of the tetras.

For both of the above, the larger fish are sedate, non-active swimmers, and tankmates must be the same of they will be stressed. There are many options to choose from, once you decide on a "centrepiece" if that is how you decide to proceed.

 

[Talawah]

That's what we needed. Your water is very soft, so you can consider the soft water species which covers most fish from South America and SE Asia generally speaking. Avoid livebearers, and any other species needing harder water.

The Black Phantom remains in the lower half of the aquarium. This is worth keeping in mind, the placement of a species within the water column, so you don't end up with all the fish in the same level and nothing elsewhere.

Yu could do angelfish or discus, a group of five to seven of either (not both together), if they interest you. There are other small shoaling fish that will work with one but not both of these, due to temperature. Discus must have warmth (80+ F, 27+ C), angelfish are fine at more normal tropical temperatures (high 70'sF, 25-26 C). A degree or two might not seem like much to us, but to the fish it can be life or death; being ectothermic, the temperature of the water drives their metabolism and their physiology is designed for fairly specific temperatures.

The above was thinking South American; if SE Asian, gourami perhaps, in a group of five to eight depending upon species; some are much more aggressive than others. Pearl Gourami are fairly peaceful and a real beauty. Some of the rasboras would work, or some of the tetras.

For both of the above, the larger fish are sedate, non-active swimmers, and tankmates must be the same of they will be stressed. There are many options to choose from, once you decide on a "centrepiece" if that is how you decide to proceed.

Thank you very much for this. I was expecting to see angels, discus, and gourami mentioned. If I decide to not go large for a centerpiece, what are your thoughts on rams? Specifically, Bolivian due to my pH. My concern is my substrate. I have read that sand is a must.

 

[Colin_T]

Bolivian rams and blue rams are both fine with sand or gravel.

 

[Byron]

Thank you very much for this. I was expecting to see angels, discus, and gourami mentioned. If I decide to not go large for a centerpiece, what are your thoughts on rams? Specifically, Bolivian due to my pH. My concern is my substrate. I have read that sand is a must.

The rams won't care too much, though being substrate feeders a sand or fine gravel is better than larger gravel. You mentioned cories in post #1 and they need sand, or before someone jumps down my throat, the should have sand if we are to try and replicate their environment. They sift this through their gills (as rams do) and they cannot do this with gravel.

The Bolivian Ram is a very lovely "centrepiece" fish even though not that large. I had a male in my 5-foot 115g Amazon riverscape for 8-9 years. He considered the entire tank his space, and all the 150 or so fish knew it and respected it. The Bolivian also is fine with "normal" tropical temps in the mid-70's, whereas the common or blue ram in any of its derived varieties must have warmth, 80F/27C or higher which again limits tankmates. Cories for example cannot handle this long-term.

This was my 115g. Play sand substrate, around 50 cories, and whatever number of characins (tetras and hatchetfish). And the Ram, probably doing his rounds of "his" space, so I added a photo of him back when I had fine gravel in this tank (2011, before Heiko Bleher told me to get sand for the cories...I listen to those who know better!)

 

[Talawah]

The rams won't care too much, though being substrate feeders a sand or fine gravel is better than larger gravel. You mentioned cories in post #1 and they need sand, or before someone jumps down my throat, the should have sand if we are to try and replicate their environment. They sift this through their gills (as rams do) and they cannot do this with gravel.

The Bolivian Ram is a very lovely "centrepiece" fish even though not that large. I had a male in my 5-foot 115g Amazon riverscape for 8-9 years. He considered the entire tank his space, and all the 150 or so fish knew it and respected it. The Bolivian also is fine with "normal" tropical temps in the mid-70's, whereas the common or blue ram in any of its derived varieties must have warmth, 80F/27C or higher which again limits tankmates. Cories for example cannot handle this long-term.

This was my 115g. Play sand substrate, around 50 cories, and whatever number of characins (tetras and hatchetfish). And the Ram, probably doing his rounds of "his" space, so I added a photo of him back when I had fine gravel in this tank (2011, before Heiko Bleher told me to get sand for the cories...I listen to those who know better!)

Thanks again! I really appreciate your info. The tank looked great. That ram had some great color!

 

[Talawah]

The rams won't care too much, though being substrate feeders a sand or fine gravel is better than larger gravel. You mentioned cories in post #1 and they need sand, or before someone jumps down my throat, the should have sand if we are to try and replicate their environment. They sift this through their gills (as rams do) and they cannot do this with gravel.

The Bolivian Ram is a very lovely "centrepiece" fish even though not that large. I had a male in my 5-foot 115g Amazon riverscape for 8-9 years. He considered the entire tank his space, and all the 150 or so fish knew it and respected it. The Bolivian also is fine with "normal" tropical temps in the mid-70's, whereas the common or blue ram in any of its derived varieties must have warmth, 80F/27C or higher which again limits tankmates. Cories for example cannot handle this long-term.

This was my 115g. Play sand substrate, around 50 cories, and whatever number of characins (tetras and hatchetfish). And the Ram, probably doing his rounds of "his" space, so I added a photo of him back when I had fine gravel in this tank (2011, before Heiko Bleher told me to get sand for the cories...I listen to those who know better!)

What are your thoughts on Festivum/Flag Cichlids? From what I’m reading, a pair of them, a pair of angels, and one ram may work? Apparently ‘deep body’ tetras like my black phantoms are usually fine with festivums.

 

[Byron]

What are your thoughts on Festivum/Flag Cichlids? From what I’m reading, a pair of them, a pair of angels, and one ram may work? Apparently ‘deep body’ tetras like my black phantoms are usually fine with festivums.

General rule...only one species of neotropical cichlid in a tank. If the tank is very large, and depending upon the species, multiple cichlid species can work, but that is not the situation here. Same general rule holds for cichlids and gourami, either but not both.

Second point. A "pair" of angels means a bonded spawning pair. Angelfish like the neotropical cichloids must select their mates and bond. The bonding may last a long time, but if the fish do not accept each other and bond, one will be dead before long if the "pair" are male/female. Two males means same result only sooner. Two females...don't risk it.

Festivum or Flag Cichlid is often thought to be the species Mesonauta festivus but apparently M. insignis is the more usual species sold under the common name. Whichever it is, it requires a tank with minimum length 48 inches (120 cm).

 

[Talawah]

General rule...only one species of neotropical cichlid in a tank. If the tank is very large, and depending upon the species, multiple cichlid species can work, but that is not the situation here. Same general rule holds for cichlids and gourami, either but not both.

Second point. A "pair" of angels means a bonded spawning pair. Angelfish like the neotropical cichloids must select their mates and bond. The bonding may last a long time, but if the fish do not accept each other and bond, one will be dead before long if the "pair" are male/female. Two males means same result only sooner. Two females...don't risk it.

Festivum or Flag Cichlid is often thought to be the species Mesonauta festivus but apparently M. insignis is the more usual species sold under the common name. Whichever it is, it requires a tank with minimum length 48 inches (120 cm).

Thanks again Byron,
I was specifically choosing these types of cichlids due to their supposed peaceful demeanor. Don’t get me wrong, each individual fish may surprise (I once kept an undulated triggerfish in my saltwater tank who wanted to be everyone’s best friend).
How many angels would you suggest? One singular angelfish? I have read that either strain of flag cichlids can be kept well with angels. Also, my tank is 60 inches long.
Of course whatever I stock will be monitored closely!

 

[Byron]

Thanks again Byron,
I was specifically choosing these types of cichlids due to their supposed peaceful demeanor. Don’t get me wrong, each individual fish may surprise (I once kept an undulated triggerfish in my saltwater tank who wanted to be everyone’s best friend).
How many angels would you suggest? One singular angelfish? I have read that either strain of flag cichlids can be kept well with angels. Also, my tank is 60 inches long.
Of course whatever I stock will be monitored closely!

My comments are meant solely to be helpful and in consideration of your fish. Sometimes I am fairly direct as I get tired of repeating.

Angelfish. This is a shoaling species, and it lives in groups. It will develop an hierarchy within the aquarium, so we must remember that unlike in their habitat, in the tank they have no where to go so they have to contend with bullies and this is severe stress to fish. The group in a tank must be five or more; never two, three or four. Two only if a bonded pair. A solitary angelfish can work, though individual fish's temperament is sometimes extreme and without a back-up plan (e.g., another suitably sized tank, or giving/selling the fish, or euthanize if it comes to that and it well might) this is only risk and unfair to the fish.

Tank size at 60 inches is fine, you have more options now. A group of angels, keeping in mind that a pair may well form and spawn, and then you have to deal with that situation.

Flag cichlids also OK in this tank. But I still do not advise combining with other cichlids. I never experiment with fish, I research and accept the norm for a species and provide accordingly. I don't see any other approach as humane, because the fish deserve no less. As I recall reading in a periodical some years ago, the fish did not ask to be caught, transported, and dumped into my aquarium; I did it deliberately. I am totally responsible for its welfare. All aquarists must accept a similar responsibility for whatever fish they acquire, or they should look for another hobby.

 

[Talawah]

My comments are meant solely to be helpful and in consideration of your fish. Sometimes I am fairly direct as I get tired of repeating.

Angelfish. This is a shoaling species, and it lives in groups. It will develop an hierarchy within the aquarium, so we must remember than unlike the habitat, in the tank they have no where to go so they have to contend with bullies and this is severe stress to fish. The group in a tank must be five or more; never two, three or four. Two only if a bonded pair. A solitary angelfish can work, though individual fish's temperament is sometimes extreme and without a back-up plan (e.g., another suitably sized tank, or giving/selling the fish, or euthanize if it comes to that and it well might) this is only risk and unfair to the fish.

Tank size at 60 inches is fine, you have more options now. A group of angels, keeping in mind that a pair may well form and spawn, and then you have to deal with that situation.

Flag cichlids also OK in this tank. But I still do not advise combining with other cichlids. I never experiment with fish, I research and accept the norm for a species and provide accordingly. I don't see any other approach as humane, because the fish deserve no less. As I recall reading in a periodical some years ago, the fish did not ask to be caught, transported, and dumped into my aquarium; I did it deliberately. I am totally responsible for its welfare. All aquarists must accept a similar responsibility for whatever fish they acquire, or they should look for another hobby.

I could not agree more, asking these questions and doing my research is all part of my due diligence. Again you have my thanks in particular for the angelfish information!

 

[Talawah]

I have ruled out the angels and possibly the flag cichlids as well. I am considering my current school of black phantom tetras, another school of deep bodied tetras, two or three 3-4” (max size) catfish to help clean up food waste (not Cory’s, leaning towards South American bumblebees here, thoughts?), and Bolivian rams. I am seeing very mixed thoughts all over the internet on whether to just get 1,2,3, or more Bolivian rams. Thoughts?
I haven’t ruled out the flags completely as everything else is mainly bottom level (or bottom-mid for the tetras) and I believe festivum to be mid-too level.
Thanks!