Black Pacthes

jumblepod

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This is a repost from new to the hobby section but people there told me to post it here and no one really new the answer to it anways so hopefully someone from this section will.

My 2 columbian tetra have got black patches and there bellys have swollen up. i have read around the internet and i think its myxobactrium or how ever you spell it. I really dont want the rest of my tank to get it! i have 3 columbian tetra and the 3rd one hasnt developed any symptoms off it but i will keep an eye on him. i have never seen any treatment for this avalible at any of my lfs. What do i do?

Ive took a picture of him have alook: Picture of the fish
 
Size of tank in gallons or litres.
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
Black patches can be ammonia burns that are healing.

Are scales sticking out with the bloating.
Can the fish maintain there balance in the water.
http://puffernet.tripod.com/myxobacteriosis.html
 
water stats are all good its a 90 litre tank which is fully stocked its not over stocked though. He seems to swim alright he still eats loads and moves fast when theres food in the tank. Hes been "Bloated for about 3 months id say and another one like him as well in the tank is as "bloated" i reckon its just there fat and overweight, theres no scales ticking out. I dont know wut these dark pacthes are. The tank is near a window and ive had some brown algae in the tank could that be too blame? Could the patches be exposure to anything? The fish im talking about has has had these black patches for about 2 months! But one of the other columbian tetras has one slight patch on him now.
 
What does it look like when the fish goes to the toilet.
Check his anus to see if its enlarged or red and inflamed.

Black patches can be ammonia burns that are healing, fighting wounds, and cancer.
 
I realise you've said water stats are good, but can you post them just so we can be sure,
 
nitrates are about 20. its been going on for ages now and the black patches are slowly getting more. I dont know wut to do there both in a hospital tank now but im getting quite anoyed with the situation now! Ive tried treating with anti bacterial but didnt do anything what can i do.
 
So the black patches are getting worse.
To be honest I don't know what to tell you to do if you have already tryed a med.
Do you have any snails in the tank.
Black patches can be other things like cancer.
How do there eyes look are the pupils black.
 
So the black patches are getting worse.
To be honest I don't know what to tell you to do if you have already tryed a med.
Do you have any snails in the tank.
Black patches can be other things like cancer.
How do there eyes look are the pupils black.

No theres no snails in the hospital tank. However there were snails in the main tank they were in before i moved them. I have heard it could be cancer but wouldnt it be unlikely that both of them have cancer at the same time with the same symptoms? what i thinks strange is the ones only got a small black patch thats slowly (over weeks im talking) got bigger and the other has slowly become covered in black patches. We really are talking like 2 months now its been going on. They still eat loads and arnt stressed. i havnt noticed anything with there eyes the one has some slight colour loss. I tryed interpet anti internal bacteria i even overdosed a little still didnt work. what shall i do with em im getting annoyed at running two tanks! lol
 
Black iris can be fish tb so keep an eye on them.
Going to get colin t a member on here who's good to take a look at your thread to see what he can come up with.
 
For jumblepod

The link in your original post to the picture doesn't work. Can you post another picture of the sick fish?

Black patching is usually cell damage caused by chemical burns. It can be caused by ammonia, nitrite, or really high levels of nitrate, too much medication, or medication being used for too long. Chlorine or chloramine in the new water that is added to the tank is also a common cause.

The bloated bellies could just be fat fish. Generally if there is an internal bacterial or protozoan infection then the fish will stop eating and often the scales will stick out. Fish that develop internal infections get fat really rapidly, within 12-24hours.
Fish Tuberculosis (TB) doesn't make a fish fat until an organ fails/ ruptures. Then the fish bloats up over night and dies within a few days. They also do a stringy white poo and stop feeding.

Cancer is unlikely for several reasons. It progresses rapidly in small animals/fish and would have probably killed the fish within a month or so. For more than one fish to develop cancer in a tank the fish would have had to be poisoned by something at the same time. Then all the fish that were poisoned would develop the same symptoms within a few days of each other and start to die at the same time. You have 2 sick tetras and 1 healthy tetra (of the same species). This makes it unlikely to be cancer.

If your fish are feeding normally and swimming around without any problems, and doing normal poo, then I would say they have been exposed to some chemicals and probably still are being exposed to it if the black is getting worse. Are you adding any plant fertiliser? If so then make sure you don't overdose. I notice you used "Interpet internal anti-bacterial" and you slightly overdosed with that. This could be a part of the problem. Medications should only be used when necessary and never overdosed. They often have toxic chemicals in like Formalin/ Formaldehyde, Malachite Green and other substances. These are all extremely toxic to any living thing and the chemical companies have put dosages on the bottles to prevent the tank inhabitants from being poisoned by overdosing.
If the fish have been poisoned, as I suspect, then the black patching will take a few weeks, maybe longer, before it goes away. It is like a bruise on your arm. It takes time for the area to heal up and the bruising to slowly go.
In the mean time I would suggest you stop treating the fish with any medication or plant fertiliser, and do some 30% water changes and gravel cleans each day for a week. This will help to dilute any chemical residue in the tank.
Make sure any new tap water is free of chlorine/ chloramine, and has a similar temperature and PH to the tank before it goes into the tank. Perhaps even double or triple dose with dechlorinator to make sure the new water is free of chlorine. Make the water up in a clean bucket before adding it to the tank. Add your dechlorinator and aerate the water for 10-30minutes (longer if possible) before using it.
Make sure any equipment used on the tank, (buckets, hoses, etc) are free of chemicals and haven’t been used in the laundry or for washing the floor or car. If you don’t already have buckets that are used specifically for the fish tank, then I would suggest getting one and writing “Fish Only” on the bucket. Then keep all your fish cleaning stuff in that bucket and make sure no-one uses it for anything else.

Make sure no-one is painting in the room, using aerosol sprays like perfumes, deodorants, etc, and your hands/ arms are free of grease, cream or chemicals before you feed the fish or do work on the tank.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.
 
Thank you for your advice colin. I dont see why none of my other fish have these problems my water tests perfect. If it was exposure to chemicals of some kind then all my fish would have it they have all been in the same tank until about 2 weeks ago when i moved the two columbian tetra with black patches to a seperate tank. The one columbian tetra with the most black patches is now hiding up by the filter now most of the time looking unhappy.

Heres a better picture than i posted before of them hope it helps. click here
 
Some fish are more tolerant of chemicals than others. Also young fish will tolerate chemicals better than old fish. However, I don’t think it is chemical poisoning.

The fish in the pic on the bottom left is really unwell. It looks a bit like muscle wasting disease (slight discolouration/ whitening of the muscle in the back). The eye doesn’t look right, and the top of the body is flatter than it should be. It also appears to be bloated and the combination could be caused by a massive internal bacterial or protozoan infection. There are also parasites that get into the bloodstream and damage the tissue. Protozoan parasites can also affect the outside of the fish and can cause bleeding that can turn black. Unfortunately when they get to that stage they are often too far gone. But you could try using something along the lines of "Waterlife Protozin" and see if it helps.
The Interpet anti internal treatment would probably contain similar ingredients to the Protozin and should have made some impact.
The tetra above and to the right is a bit fatter than it should be. It is probably the same thing as the other one but not as advanced. Both fish definitely have cell damage (black patching).

It could be old age as well. Most small tetras don't live that long, (3 or 4 years) and as they get older their immune system weakens and they become prone to more diseases. Sometimes a combination of pathogens will affect the fish and produce symptoms like this.

I would keep the fish isolated in a quarantine tank at this stage and see how they go. You can try adding vitamin C and Beta-carotene to their diet. These can help boost the immune system but might not make any difference. Vitamin C tablets can be crushed up and a small amount sprinkled onto some frozen food. Most fresh/ frozen veges have high levels of vitamin C and can be beneficial.
Beta-carotene is available from health food shops and you puncture one of the capsules and squeeze the orange liquid onto some food. Then feed it to the fish.
 

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