better plant substrate suitable for cory's

[Shifty1303]

Hi all,

moving house in 3 weeks so am going to take the opportunity to upgrade my play sand substrate to something plants will actually grow in.

I was considering ADA aquasoil amazonia but i read it turns to mud after a while and has to be replaced every couple of years. its also hella expensive.

i read good things about caribsea eco-complete too in terms of longevity but it looks a little rough for cory barbels?

could i use the eco-complete and top it with a layer of caribsea black taihitan moon sand for the catfish and just root all the plants below the sand layer?

whar do you other plant and cory fans use?

thanks for all advice.

 

[Byron]

Plants will grow very well in play sand, just as well as any other substrate. If you have cories, you should keep the play sand, there is nothing better for them, or plants.

It is simple enough to add nutrients to those already present; water changes and fish/fish feeding produce natural nutrients, and sometimes these are sufficient in themselves--this depends upon the plant species, numbers, and fish load and source water. But liquid additives are easy, as are substrate tabs for some larger heavy-feeding plants. I've been doing this for 25 years.

Eco-complete is dangerous for substrate fish, as is Flourite. There are the only two I have experience with (failed, but still experience).

Byron.

 

[Shifty1303]

Plants will grow very well in play sand, just as well as any other substrate. If you have cories, you should keep the play sand, there is nothing better for them, or plants.

It is simple enough to add nutrients to those already present; water changes and fish/fish feeding produce natural nutrients, and sometimes these are sufficient in themselves--this depends upon the plant species, numbers, and fish load and source water. But liquid additives are easy, as are substrate tabs for some larger heavy-feeding plants. I've been doing this for 25 years.

Eco-complete is dangerous for substrate fish, as is Flourite. There are the only two I have experience with (failed, but still experience).

Byron.

fair enough! if i fancied black sand for a change would it be ok the caribsea stuff? or is it still not as fine/smooth as play sand?

what ferts/tabs would you recommend?

also; what plants would you consider for a 55g with play sand and ferts as mentioned above? currently with zooMed 6500k bulbs which you yourself recommended byron but i cant get anything other than crypts or valis to grow successfully. really want some more feathery, delicate plants and definitely some red colour in there but everything just dies after a month or so

 

[Byron]

fair enough! if i fancied black sand for a change would it be ok the caribsea stuff? or is it still not as fine/smooth as play sand?

I once had a "black" substrate and under the tank light and water is was not black but dark grey. That doesn't really matter, but another thing is that it showed up detritus like I wouldn't have believed. It was always "dirty" in appearance. Mixes like play sand will be are better for this aspect.

what ferts/tabs would you recommend?

If these are needed--and this has to be worked out in relation to your tank lighting, plant species, fish load--a basic complete or comprehensive liquid supplement may be best. I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium; another basically identical is Brightwell Aquatics FlorinMulti. In either case, make sure it is the exact produce, as they make other products in the "Flourish" and "Florin" lines.

For larger substrate plants, like the large swords, lilies, etc, Seachem's Flourish Tabs work very well. This is ideal for plants like these with very large root systems, and that are "hungry" for nutrients.

Faster growing plants need more nutrients and light than slower growing plants.

also; what plants would you consider for a 55g with play sand and ferts as mentioned above? currently with zooMed 6500k bulbs which you yourself recommended byron but i cant get anything other than crypts or valis to grow successfully. really want some more feathery, delicate plants and definitely some red colour in there but everything just dies after a month or so

That is good lighting, but I will have to go back and review those other threads as I cannot remember the details of the tanks and light. I have to head out here for a bit, so if you want to find those threads and post the links I will take a look later.

 

[Shifty1303]

I once had a "black" substrate and under the tank light and water is was not black but dark grey. That doesn't really matter, but another thing is that it showed up detritus like I wouldn't have believed. It was always "dirty" in appearance. Mixes like play sand will be are better for this aspect.



If these are needed--and this has to be worked out in relation to your tank lighting, plant species, fish load--a basic complete or comprehensive liquid supplement may be best. I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium; another basically identical is Brightwell Aquatics FlorinMulti. In either case, make sure it is the exact produce, as they make other products in the "Flourish" and "Florin" lines.

For larger substrate plants, like the large swords, lilies, etc, Seachem's Flourish Tabs work very well. This is ideal for plants like these with very large root systems, and that are "hungry" for nutrients.

Faster growing plants need more nutrients and light than slower growing plants.



That is good lighting, but I will have to go back and review those other threads as I cannot remember the details of the tanks and light. I have to head out here for a bit, so if you want to find those threads and post the links I will take a look later.

to that end here is the rundown:

fluval roma 200 - 55g 100x40x45cm (wxdxh)
running zoomed flora sun and tropic sun - going to replace with flora sun and ultra sun soon
fluval 306 external filter

temp 23-25 celcius
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate never more than 40ppm
ph around 7.5 average

stocking:
15 panda cory
1 bronze cory
8 lemon tetra
2 black ruby barb (to be upped to 10 after i move in 3 weeks)
1 glowlight tetra
1 praecox dwarf rainbow
1 bristlenose plec

couple of bit of driftwood and rock but nothing exciting in terms of plants really want stuff like red aponogeton crispus (has green one of these before which didnt survive), alternanthara reineckii etc.

this is the website i usually order from which indicates what kind of stuff we have in the uk:
http://java-plants.com/individual-plants/red-plants

thanks again mate!

 

[Byron]

couple of bit of driftwood and rock but nothing exciting in terms of plants really want stuff like red aponogeton crispus (has green one of these before which didnt survive), alternanthara reineckii etc.

Most of us would like these plants, and many (me included) have tried them and failed. They need much brighter light to start, then more nutrients to balance. Plant leaves appear as a colour because they are reflecting that colour light wavelength. So green plants reflect much of the green light they receive, red plants reflect red, etc. Since red is also the prime colour to drive photosynthesis, it follows that red leaf plants need much more red light. I can grow thriving plants, but they are greenleaf except for my Red Tiger Lotus but that has floating leaves so they are under the tank lighting and getting brighter light so they do a bit better.

You have fallen into the same "trap" that I suspect we all fell into on first trying plants. We select the wrong species, have insufficient light, and don't fertilize--in a nutshell. Once you sort out your light, then balance it with nutrients, and stay with plants that do thrive in your conditions.

fluval roma 200 - 55g 100x40x45cm (wxdxh)
running zoomed flora sun and tropic sun - going to replace with flora sun and ultra sun soon

You want a mix of UltraSun and TropicSun. Forget the FloraSun, it is not going to help. The other two are more intense light to start with, for the same size tubes, and they provide better colour spectrum. I've used the Ultra and Tropic together and they are good.

Now, over this 100 cm length tank, what length are the tubes? I tried to track this down, but the online Roma 200 is LED, not T8.

 

[Shifty1303]

Most of us would like these plants, and many (me included) have tried them and failed. They need much brighter light to start, then more nutrients to balance. Plant leaves appear as a colour because they are reflecting that colour light wavelength. So green plants reflect much of the green light they receive, red plants reflect red, etc. Since red is also the prime colour to drive photosynthesis, it follows that red leaf plants need much more red light. I can grow thriving plants, but they are greenleaf except for my Red Tiger Lotus but that has floating leaves so they are under the tank lighting and getting brighter light so they do a bit better.

You have fallen into the same "trap" that I suspect we all fell into on first trying plants. We select the wrong species, have insufficient light, and don't fertilize--in a nutshell. Once you sort out your light, then balance it with nutrients, and stay with plants that do thrive in your conditions.



You want a mix of UltraSun and TropicSun. Forget the FloraSun, it is not going to help. The other two are more intense light to start with, for the same size tubes, and they provide better colour spectrum. I've used the Ultra and Tropic together and they are good.

Now, over this 100 cm length tank, what length are the tubes? I tried to track this down, but the online Roma 200 is LED, not T8.

in that case i have the two bulbs you recommended already and i shall purchase new ones when i move. the current roma has LED yes but mine has the older 36" t8's.

given these bulbs and if i start using seachem flourish as per manufacturers instructions what could i hope to get away with?

i like the look of the tiger lotus but am concerned it could just choke everything below it of light?. what are your other "go-to" plants?

regards,

 

[Byron]

in that case i have the two bulbs you recommended already and i shall purchase new ones when i move. the current roma has LED yes but mine has the older 36" t8's.

given these bulbs and if i start using seachem flourish as per manufacturers instructions what could i hope to get away with?

i like the look of the tiger lotus but am concerned it could just choke everything below it of light?. what are your other "go-to" plants?

regards,

Two 36-inch T8 tubes, using the ones I recommend, should give you moderate light (subjectively speaking) over your 55g. I had this same lighting over my 40g until the fixture gave out, and I now have two 24-inch tubes only because I thought the dual 36-inch were a bit much. But the 40g is shallower and not as long, so you should be fine.

Red Tiger Lotus is a nice plant, but it is pretty big; I have it in my 90g which is 2 feet depth, and the leaves are floating over half the surface. While I am a fan of floating plants, this one can get a bit much, and it doesn't have the interest of dangling roots either. I would definitely have floaters, maybe Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce. The stem plants sometimes do well floating; Brazilian Pennywort is very good for this.

Sword plants in the genus Echinodorus should work for you. One of the larger (Echinodorus grisebachii, usually seen as E. bleherae) as a focal point perhaps, or you could get three. This plant can grow with such variety, it works in larger tanks and not so large. I have five of them in my 40g. The pygmy chain sword, Helanthium tenellum, is a nice cover plant.

There isn't much in the reds, for the reason I mentioned previously about needing brighter light. You could look at the crypts. There is quite a nice brownish-reddish leaf one, Cryptocoryne wendtii "red". I'll attach a photo (not mine, off the net). Crypts do not like any changes, so if it comes in a pot, place it in where you might want it and make sure before un-potting and planting. You can move it around if still potted to get the best position. It will spread by runners but very slowly.

Lower light plants like Java Fern, Anubias and Java Moss do well under floating plants, and attach to chunks of wood for a nice effect. Java Fern is ideal in front of the filter return, as it does not seem bothered by the stronger flow which can kill some plants.

I would use the Flourish Tabs if you get the large sword(s). Otherwise, the liquid will be sufficient. Use it regardless, the substrate tabs are "extra" when needed.

 

[DutchMuch]

Sand, to answer the main question.