Betta Tank Mates

[Curiosity101]

Glass catfish grow to 15cm (6") and as such I wouldn't put them in anything less than a 3ft tank. Not only do you have to bear in mind their size, but also that they are a shoaling species and need tank mates to be happy.

Do you have a liquid test kit for the tank. You WILL need one if you want those fish to last more than a few months. Though to be honest the damage will pretty much be done by now I'd have though. And I would expected them to die within the next 3-6months. They don't always, but I'm going with averages here.
Also what type of fish are they? And how often have you changed the water? To get fish through a fish in cycle it often requires at least 50% water changes a day to keep the levels 'safe'

Would you consider returning them to the shop and finishing your cycle fishlessly? It's really simple. You just go to buy some household ammonia from a shop and put a little bit in (replicating the waste the fish would be creating if they were in there.

Oh and as for cleaning the filter sponges, another plus of fishless cycle is that the filter shouldn't need washing during the cycling process. The filter gunk isn't where the main colony of bacteria live, they live mainly on the actual pads. So although you shouldn't need to wash it, if you do that's fine.
But not if you washed it with tap water. Tap water can easily kill a new bacteria colony. To wash it you're meant to swish gently in old tank water (taken out after a water change).
This makes me think you may well be at the beginning of your cycle again....and another reason I would really recommend a fishless cycle.
Here are details so you can make an informed choice (something shops don't seem to think is important!). If you could read both then that would be great as you need to know how to do a fish in cycle successfully, and also it'd be good for you to read fishless so you can decide if you want to swap.
Fish-in cycling
Fishless Cycling


Also it really depends on the type of terrapin as to what conditions it needs, and also what sized tank. But general rule of thumb is that you can't give it the correct living conditions if you keep it with fish. And vice versa.
If pets at home had them in a small bowl then either A) That particular store is run by idiots (which does happen) B) They were only in their temporarily whilst they're area was being cleaned. Afterall they are notoriously dirty.

 

[chestnutree]

Unfortunately they were in the same bowl the following day.

Right...so next time wash with tank water. got it.

It's strange how you get different advice on these things. The shop told me the other day that i should be ready to pop in any fish now 2 weeks has passed. I held off this as im going on holiday for 2 weeks though.

I don't have a test kit, due to the different advice it looks like i should really get one incase i have done any harm! The shop advised i think he said 20% water change and only weekly, not daily! Im certain he didn't say 50%

If im changing 50% daily, will i not stop the bacteria from ever building up?

Can't remember the name of the fish i have, will have to have a look. They are about 1inch in length. told they are hardy. 2 are a light yellow colour and the other 2 are silver/black striped. normal fish shape.

 

[Curiosity101]

Are these the fish?

^^ I'm guessing they probably sold you zebra danios. The yellow once is the same species, just different colour strain.

The shop, if it's pets at home, are told to follow the guidelines sent out by head office. And clearly the people in head office know nothing about the nitrogen cycle or fish. So couple this with stores which employ people who 'just want a job' as opposed to 'want a job with fish and know about them' and you end up in the situation you're in.

You need, and it is NEED, a test kit regardless of the current state of the water. You need it because if you're keeping fish you need to know the condition of their water. The second they ever start looking off you test the water too see if that's the cause (cause that's normally an easy fix, and you need to act fast to avoid losses).
A perfect example was my tank around a month ago. I told my dad I'd fed my fish, he insisted that they still looked hungry, which they did. But that's how they should be when you finish feeding, not ravenous...but still willing to take food. I made him promise not to feed them (knowing what he's like) and then went to bed.
When I switched the light on in the morning I saw 4 of my 13 rummy nose tetra twitching and pale. I tested the water straight away, low n behold, a large ammonia spike. So I did a massive water change and went to shout at my dad, who didn't know how I knew, but admitted he'd fed them after I went to bed.
Had I not been able to test the water so fast I wouldn't have found the problem so fast and I would've lost those fish. As it stands they recovered very quickly once the water levels returned to normal.

The shop clearly don't know about fish in cycling. 20% a week is what the 'average' tank need weekly once it's fully cycled and has a normal/light level of stocking.
Whilst cycling, to protect the fish you need to keep levels of ammonia and nitrite low enough not to considerably harm them. This requires huge water changes daily. Sometimes multiples of 80% are needed.

And seeing as the bacteria grow on the filter pads, I don't understand why you'd think a water change would stop them building up? If you mean cause ammonia is low then you're thinking about this wrong, to 'grow' (ie. expand in numbers) the bacteria only need the fish to be producing a trace amount of ammonia more than they are converting.
Eg. Fish produce 2ppm of ammonia per hour and bacteria are converting 2ppm of ammonia an hour then they will maintain a colony (and you will have practically 0 ammonia in the water at any time.
however to grow lets say... Fish produce 2ppm ammonia per hour and bacteria are converting 1.9999999999ppm per hour. Then the bacteria will still multiply (no faster or slower) until they equal the production of waste of the fish.
So even if you replaced 100% of the water. Whilever the fish are creating ammonia faster than the bacteria can convert it, it will be present in the water. Within seconds it would go from 0 ammonia to trace ammonia. And within a couple of hours you can have anywhere from 0.25ppm to 2/3ppm!

Another note. Ammonia levels about 8ppm grow the wrong type of bacteria, so it may be (if your ammonia is or has been that high) that your cycle hasn't even properly started yet earlier. It will have lagged whilst the wrong bacteria grew. Cause they grow, lowering the ammonia levels to the right one for the bacteria we want and only THEN does your cycle actually start.

Soooo, decided on fishless or fish in yet? Have you read the threads?

 

[chestnutree]

As i've already started with fish in im going to keep them. i feel a little mean but they seem happy enough so far.

You seem to know your stuff! thanks for the detailed reply.

And wow, you knew from my pathetic description the exact fish i have! wel done lol. i was suprised 2 c a pic of my 2 little fishies

I'll make sure i get doing these larger water changes and get myself a tester kit! I just hope they are ok for my 2 week hol with a friend checking on them with weekend food every few days.

How long would you advise before adding other fish?

Have i been extremely lucky so far not to have lost any fish?

 

[Curiosity101]

Just a note. You wont really notice a huge change in your fishes behaviour until it's too late. The ammonia slowly burns away at gill tissue, they are able to be 'normal' until their ability to do gas exchange gets too low. That's when you see them gasping, and that is what is shortly followed by death.

I think Nitrites is the one that affects the nervous system (which comes once the ammonia starts being converted by bacteria). And that is what alerted me in my tank when my dad over fed. I guessed nitrite spike, but presumed there was probably ammonia too. And seeing as that was the most dangerous I tested that first, didn't need to test nitrites cause I know full well if there is an ammonia spike in an established tank, it'll probably be followed by nitrites (plus how the fish were acting).

Anyways.... yes. I knew full well they were zebra danio. Why on earth shops think they're 'hardy' I don't know. I mean they aren't as sensitive as some fish, but they're still as likely to get badly burnt or poisoned.

Also. As I said, for 2 reasons (washing the sponges in water, and the facts you've done no water changes), chances are that you're at the VERY beginning of your cycle. And so now is the perfect time to switch to fishless. Apart from anything else those fish aren't suitable for that tank. They grow to around 5cm and are EXTREMELY active fish. I wouldn't recommend them in anything short of an 80cm long tank, in shorter tanks they tend to be more likely to be agressive to other fish (even though by nature they're peaceful).

You basically can't add more fish until it's fully cycled. It'll be fully cycled when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and 0 at ALL times. Even then as I said the current fish aren't really suitable (and are sub tropical by definition so although they can handle higher temperatures 'technically' a temperature of around 18-20C is what is correct for them.)
Normally a fish in cycle takes anywhere from 8-12weeks
A fishless you're looking at between 6-8weeks to fully cycle.
In both instances you can have faster or slow cycles, but they're averages.

Another reason you should still consider fishless is that you're probably over feeding the fish at the moment. They should be fed every 2-3days max and a very very small amount, to minimise on waste. Friends don't tend to see this as enough, presume you've made a mistake, and tend to feed them more. So you come back to dead fish, or lots of algae. Sometimes both.
And it could mess up your cycle further.

With a fishless cycle, you'd pop some ammonia in before you went on holiday. Wrap the tank in a black bin liner to keep light out. And then literally forget about it whilst you were away. And when you came back you would have a good chunk of your cycle done.
Alternatively, you could get your friend to come by once whilst you were on holiday, just to top up the amount of ammonia.