Betta Seems Sick

[toomie]

My betta, Smokin` Joe Frasier (hubby named him) seems sick today although I can`t quite figure out what`s wrong. I fasted him and all of my other bettas yesterday, and today when I went to feed him, he seemed very lethargic, and I actually thought he was blind for a while. He would swim slowly around his tank, bumping into the plants, filter, etc. His light was on, as I turned it on to feed him. He was resting on top of one of his plants, and was very slow to wake up, which is not normal for him. Usually he is a very alert fishie....

When he finally made his way to the front of the tank, I dropped 3 pellets in the water, 2 of them right in front of his nose, and he swam slowly past them like he didn`t even see them. He eventually ate 2 pellets, one after it floated and swelled up a bit.

His water stats are:

5 gallon tank
temp: 80 degrees F
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 40
PH: 8.2


I realize the PH is a little high, but it has been that for quite some time, and no problems before this. I don`t want to add chemicals to bring it down because I don`t believe it would be good for him, and it would be a constant battle to keep it there, and don`t want fluctuating PH all the time.

Now one thing I didn`t do today is give him some cooked pea after fasting, should I fast him another day and offer the pea? He also seems to me to be bloated in his front area, right where the long skinny fins come out underneath him? Don`t know what that area is called. My DH says he didn`t look swollen there to him, but he does to me. Maybe I`m just trying to find something wrong, I don`t know. So, any opinions?

 

[WILDER]

Can you issolate him as I would try a bacterial med on him.
Is it possible to load a pic onto the forum.

What do you normally feed the fish.
Are you soaking his pellets for a few seconds before letting the fish have them.
Does he have a sunken in belly.
What does it look like when he goes to the toilet.

 

[toomie]

Can you issolate him as I would try a bacterial med on him.
Is it possible to load a pic onto the forum.

What do you normally feed the fish.
Are you soaking his pellets for a few seconds before letting the fish have them.
Does he have a sunken in belly.
What does it look like when he goes to the toilet.

Well, he already has his own tank, if that`s what you mean by isolating him...?

I feed him Hikari Tropical Gold pellets, usually 4 or 5 a day. I don`t soak them first. Should I?

He does not appear to have a sunken in belly, in fact he`s the most robust fish of all my bettas. I think he`s older than the rest, he`s about 2 inches long and has very long fins.

I don`t know what his poop looks like since I have gravel in the bottom of the tank and can`t see it when he goes.

He just kind of laid around on the bottom of the tank this morning after I fed him. Then I left the house for several hours, and when I came back, he was swimming around the tank, looking better than he did. I don`t see any white spots on him, no pineconing, no fuzzy stuff, etc. Now he did have a bad csase of fin rot when I brought him home over 2 months ago. It was so bad that his cup was filled with little black bits, looked like someone had dumped a bunch of black pepper in his water. After I had him, it started clearing up, and I did medicate him for it. He never acted sick however, and always ate well. His fins still have a greyish black transparency about the edges, but they don`t shred like they did, and it hasn`t spread anywhere else on his body. I just don`t know what got into him this morning. I`ll try to get a pick uploaded.

And thank you very much for your reply!

 

[WILDER]

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
I would add a bacterial med to his tank.

You need to improve his diet with some frozen foods and veg.

 

[toomie]

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
I would add a bacterial med to his tank.

You need to improve his diet with some frozen foods and veg.

I fasted him again yesterday, in case he is constipated, and offered him some shelled cooked pea today. He acted like he didn`t even see it. No interest in it whatsoever. So I put 3 pellets in, and again he acted like he never saw them. Eventually he ate 2, but he almost acted like he was forced to do it, he didn`t eagerly gobble them up like he usually does. Still swimming slowly around.

I still think the area where his ventral fins come out looks swollen. Is this where his stomach is located? His color appears somewhat dull, but other than what I just described, he still looks normal. I just can`t figure out what`s wrong.

Is there any way to visually tell if it is an old fish?

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
I would add a bacterial med to his tank.

You need to improve his diet with some frozen foods and veg.

I fasted him again yesterday, in case he is constipated, and offered him some shelled cooked pea today. He acted like he didn`t even see it. No interest in it whatsoever. So I put 3 pellets in, and again he acted like he never saw them. Eventually he ate 2, but he almost acted like he was forced to do it, he didn`t eagerly gobble them up like he usually does. Still swimming slowly around.

I still think the area where his ventral fins come out looks swollen. Is this where his stomach is located? His color appears somewhat dull, but other than what I just described, he still looks normal. I just can`t figure out what`s wrong.

Is there any way to visually tell if it is an old fish?

Oh, and no flicking or rubbing, either.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

When in doubt, waterchange

Nitrates are a little on the high side, still under toxic levels though but see if that will perk him up!

 

[WILDER]

What your tap nitrate reading.
Being lethagic and listless can be signs of a bacterial infection.

 

[toomie]

What your tap nitrate reading.
Being lethagic and listless can be signs of a bacterial infection.

My tap nitrate reading is 20 ppm.

I am going to do a big water change, like maybe 75%, does this sound too drastic? I`m also thinking of taking the gravel out completely so I can monitor his poops.

Tonight I offered him 3 pellets and he ate them fairly quickly, almost like his old self but not quite. Still swimming slowly around, and I hope I`m being paranoid here, but I think he might be starting to bloat up. I`ve also noticed what appear to be one or two teeny tiny little pinholes in his fins, very close to his body. Did not notice these before tonight.

I have some ampicillin capsules. SHould I start him on this tonight?

 

[loraxchick]

could you post a pic? i wouldnt freak out and use antibiotics for a few small hole in his fins...could have caught them on something. is he over all acting better? eating is a great sign. lazing is common for bettas. mine loafs around for quite long chunks of time, but he's older. how's his color?
usually signs are pretty obvious unless it's internal (and then they usually dont eat).
id keep up water changing for a few more days until i decide if medication is appropriate. if you do decide it is, at least youve got some antibiotics on hand. dont underestimate the waterchange!
keep us posted and good luck!

 

[toomie]

Update on my betta:

He is doing much worse, I have come to the conclusion that he has advanced fin rot. I had thought his fin rot cleared up after I got him, as I treated him for it and his fins weren`t crumbling anymore, but I guess I didn`t treat him long enough. His fins have pinholes all through them, the edges look like they are crumbling again, and his ventral fins (the real long skinny ones in the front) have descintigrated to short little nubs. He just hangs in one corner of his tank and is not eating. I was treating him with Maracyn TC, but 2 days ago I started him on ampicillin. I moved him to a one gallon unfiltered tank and am changing some of the water each day as per directions of the ampicillin. I don`t know what else to do and I feel horrible. He looks so miserable. I put his little bridge in there so he has something to rest on close to the surface if he wants to. Is there anything else I should be doing?

 

[loraxchick]

the ampicillin could be expired or you have a bad strain...could you possibly get a new dose and check the exp date on it? antibiotics have a shelf life. do a big water change and start him on a different pack of ampicillin and just keep his water clean.
look into sufla drugs too. see if they help finrot...im not sure if they do, but they are a different "class" of anitbiotics and it might be worth switching if they are affective...but you MUST finish this round with the ampicilin (if you dont it may casue bacterial mutation which could produce a more virulent+bad strain) always important to finish antibiotics for the FULL course.
but look into sulfas and see if they are affective in treating finrot...ask wilder...i hope she reads this and says whether she thinks this might be affective.


how many days left do you have for this treatment of ampicilin?

 

[toomie]

the ampicillin could be expired or you have a bad strain...could you possibly get a new dose and check the exp date on it? antibiotics have a shelf life. do a big water change and start him on a different pack of ampicillin and just keep his water clean.
look into sufla drugs too. see if they help finrot...im not sure if they do, but they are a different "class" of anitbiotics and it might be worth switching if they are affective...but you MUST finish this round with the ampicilin (if you dont it may casue bacterial mutation which could produce a more virulent+bad strain) always important to finish antibiotics for the FULL course.
but look into sulfas and see if they are affective in treating finrot...ask wilder...i hope she reads this and says whether she thinks this might be affective.


how many days left do you have for this treatment of ampicilin?

I gave him 2 doses so far, the bottle says to give for at least 5 and not more than 10. It also says to stop treatment if no improvement is seen after 5 days. Today will be his 3rd dose. I just ordered this stuff about a month ago from Medi-vet.com. The expiration date is June of 2010.

 

[loraxchick]

then keep treating with the ampicillin for the full course...these things dont always work "overnight"...just keep an eye for signs of getting much worse...hopefully hell start showing improvement. its never a good idea to stop taking antibiotics part way thru the course(that goes for us humans too)...treat him for the five and see how that does.
cheers

 

[WILDER]

I would of stuck to the same med by self. Tetracycline a good med.
Give the med time to work. But once bacterial infections have advanced there hard to cure.

 

[toomie]

Joe died today.

This morning he looked even worse, even had his nose out of the water trying to breathe.

Last night I noticed he was beginning to pinecone, so I knew there was pretty much no chance of saving him after that.

I don`t know what killed him, but now I have an empty 5 gallon tank that needs to be sterilized. I have some questions about that, but I will make another post in the appropriate place.

Thanks for all of your help.