Best Substrate (if Money Were No Object)

[Curiosity101]

Just wanted people who have used 1 or more subsrates to tell me which one is best.

I want to change my tank over to a fertilising substrate.

Whether it be a substrate capped with Black Tahitian Moon Sand, or just a dark substrate.

My plan is to ask for some for christmas, so as I said money isn't a problem. Though obviously I don't want to go spending money for the sake of it.

Oh and is there anything other than black gravel or Black Tahitian Moon Sand. If there isn't then which one would you go for?

 

[baron von bubba]

Just wanted people who have used 1 or more subsrates to tell me which one is best.

I want to change my tank over to a fertilising substrate.

Whether it be a substrate capped with Black Tahitian Moon Sand, or just a dark substrate.

My plan is to ask for some for christmas, so as I said money isn't a problem. Though obviously I don't want to go spending money for the sake of it.

Oh and is there anything other than black gravel or Black Tahitian Moon Sand. If there isn't then which one would you go for?

on another respectable planted tank forum the ADA aqua soil range and oliver knotts nature soil are the "money no object" substrates of choice it seems.

another black substrate is eco complete, its what i have, but only cos it was cheapish! ;0)

 

[aaronnorth]

1. oliver knott naturesoil
2. ADA aquasoil
3. Eco complete

NS doesnt cloud and gives excellent water quality from the start
AS does cloud and currently i am finding my plants covered in a thin coating of dust
EC isnt necassarily last, it doesnt contain nutrients to start with but not many people use because if they have the moeny they usually fork out the extra bit of money for the AS.

All come in black


With capped substrates, i have found JBL Aqubasis+ to be good, i have now used it in my 60l & my current tank.
There is tropica (£19 for 5l), but if you use this then i would reccomend you buy akadama which is loads cheaper (£18 for 14l) and essentially the same stuff. You can add some osmocote or peat if you like.
Some use cat litter too, which is a couple of £'s for a big bag.


The other option is to use an inert substrate and dose more heavily in the water column.

 

[Curiosity101]

Thanks both of you. Perfect replies.

I'm definitely going for one with added ferts. Mainly as Tahitian Moon Sand is so expensive...I basically figured there are many substrates that are the same colour/dark in colour that do alot more than just 'sit', for alot less.

At the mo I think it's a toss up between...

Akadama or JBL with the nutrients you mentioned sprinkled on and then capped with black sand.

Or...possibly...I could ask for the naturesoil, very hefty price tag though. What sort of 'literage' do I need for a 80cm x 35cm tank (Fluval roma 125)?

Oh and is there anyway of adding nutrients for EC? I would like to have at least some ferts in the substrate, just incase the daily dosing gets forgotten.

 

[aaronnorth]

Thanks both of you. Perfect replies.

I'm definitely going for one with added ferts. Mainly as Tahitian Moon Sand is so expensive...I basically figured there are many substrates that are the same colour/dark in colour that do alot more than just 'sit', for alot less.

At the mo I think it's a toss up between...

Akadama or JBL with the nutrients you mentioned sprinkled on and then capped with black sand.

Or...possibly...I could ask for the naturesoil, very hefty price tag though. What sort of 'literage' do I need for a 80cm x 35cm tank (Fluval roma 125)?

Oh and is there anyway of adding nutrients for EC? I would like to have at least some ferts in the substrate, just incase the daily dosing gets forgotten.

the JBL wont need osmocote, only the akadama. I suppose there is no harm in adding it though but it will save you money.
here is a good write up on akadama,
http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/akadama.htm

akadama will cause a drop in GH & pH intially but it will stop after a while. It is just while it is soaking up nutrients. To limit this, soak it in CaCO3 for a few days.

Aquabasis is cheapest at zooplus which is £8 for 5l. in the shops it is usually £15.

EC takes nutients out of the water column, so you will either have to
a) put it in the tank and make sure you keep up with the daily dose
b) soak it before use in nutrient rich water.

it depends on the depth you want,
length(cm) x width x depth (of substrate) / 1000 = litres requires
if you know the bag sizes, then do the answer from above / size of bag = number of bags required.

 

[ALW]

Agreed Oliver Knott

 

[Curiosity101]

Just been having another think about this, and what do you do when it comes to moving plants around etc?

Surely if you had a capped substrate then you would encounter problems with the capped stuff coming to the top, and then presumably clouding the water?

I would quite like Eco Complete, but I have VERY VERY VERY soft water. As in I think it has a GH and KH value of practically 0. I hear Eco-complete buffers the water, and in doing so breaks up and makes the water cloudy?

I've also heard Oliver Knotts is VERY light, so moves around alot, and many shallow rooting plants find it hard to stay planted. Any opinion on this?

 

[Gurglar]

I've started my first proper planted tank and went with ADA aquasoil it only clouds the water when you move it around then settles again i can't say how well it is yet as its only been in there for 3 weeks

 

[Curiosity101]

It's mainly the cloudiness that could be a problem. Cause I'd happily go with a capped substrate...it's just that if/when I inevitably move plants around am I going to find that it's all getting mixed up and then it ends up a horrible mess?

Also, if I was to soak Eco-complete, what do I need to soak it in?

 

[aaronnorth]

Just been having another think about this, and what do you do when it comes to moving plants around etc?

Surely if you had a capped substrate then you would encounter problems with the capped stuff coming to the top, and then presumably clouding the water?

I would quite like Eco Complete, but I have VERY VERY VERY soft water. As in I think it has a GH and KH value of practically 0. I hear Eco-complete buffers the water, and in doing so breaks up and makes the water cloudy?

I've also heard Oliver Knotts is VERY light, so moves around alot, and many shallow rooting plants find it hard to stay planted. Any opinion on this?

EC doesnt break up, it just has calcium carbonate precipitate on the surface which raises the hardness, hence why it will stop raising it after a few weeks. So no a long term solution.

You can buy a GH booster in dry powders form if you want to raise the GH, and calcium carbonate for the KH.

Oli Knott is fine for plants from what i have seen, Mark (saintly) uses it a lot so he can comment more, but here is some images from his website

http/www.plantedbox.com/?p=793
http/www.plantedbox.com/?p=888

It's mainly the cloudiness that could be a problem. Cause I'd happily go with a capped substrate...it's just that if/when I inevitably move plants around am I going to find that it's all getting mixed up and then it ends up a horrible mess?

Also, if I was to soak Eco-complete, what do I need to soak it in?

what do you need to soak EC for?

 

[Curiosity101]

EC isnt necassarily last, it doesnt contain nutrients to start with but not many people use because if they have the moeny they usually fork out the extra bit of money for the AS.

EC takes nutients out of the water column, so you will either have to
a) put it in the tank and make sure you keep up with the daily dose
b) soak it before use in nutrient rich water.

Am I being really dense? I read and re read those posts...I thought you meant EC needs soaking? If you're pretty sure that EC wont cloud then I'd be happy to take your word for it.

I'd certainly rather have eco complete if it's ok in that respect. I know I said money no object...but I'm not asking for £80 worth of soil for christmas! lol.

 

[aaronnorth]

<!--quoteo(post=2559826:date=Oct 7 2009, 02:34 PM:name=aaronnorth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aaronnorth @ Oct 7 2009, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2559826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EC isnt necassarily last, it doesnt contain nutrients to start with but not many people use because if they have the moeny they usually fork out the extra bit of money for the AS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=2559880:date=Oct 7 2009, 04:04 PM:name=aaronnorth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aaronnorth @ Oct 7 2009, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2559880"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EC takes nutients out of the water column, so you will either have to
a) put it in the tank and make sure you keep up with the daily dose
b) soak it before use in nutrient rich water.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Am I being really dense? I read and re read those posts...I thought you meant EC needs soaking? If you're pretty sure that EC wont cloud then I'd be happy to take your word for it. <img src="http/www.fishforums.net/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I'd certainly rather have eco complete if it's ok in that respect. I know I said money no object...but I'm not asking for £80 worth of soil for christmas! lol.

this new look is really confusing to post on and read!!

your not being dense, its me
soak it in some potassium nitrate & potassium phosphate. (mix the powder in water so it equates to approx 5ppm NO3 & 2ppm PO4 - see EI guide)
I havent heard of people complaining of clouding, even when it is disturbed.

Thanks, Aaron

 

[Curiosity101]

I think it will be eco-complete going on the christmas list then! Thanks so so so so much, wouldn't have had a clue without you. And the black substrate will really show off my shiney new plecs when I get them!

 

[Curiosity101]

Oh and just to check, there's nothing else I need to know about eco complete? Is it round/small grained enough for bottom feeders as I have kuhli loaches... And also my bolivian rams like to sift through the sand to filter food out.

 

[Curiosity101]

Oh and does anyone have an opinion on flourite? Specifically flourite black sand? Looking at eco-complete it seems a bit like gravel...and I don't want to cause my rams and kuhlis any problems.