Beginning My Fishless Cycle - Please Advise

[eaglesaquarium]

Mature media is working. It should go nicely from here. The speed will slowly pickup and this whole thing could be done before you know it. Be sure to wait for the ammonia to drop all the way down to zero before dosing, but this is promising. (An increase in nitrate is always the goal in a fishless cycle... that shows that the N-bacs, as well as the A-bacs are working! )

 

[blagger]

Nice one eagles, really appreciate your replies, keeps me going.

Getting excited now you have mentioned the media is working and it should start picking up from here.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Your increase in nitrates normally happens after about 2-4 weeks. In my own case (I added SafeStart), I didn't see nitrates until the 4 week mark. I should have saved the money and just bought a calendar to track the progress.

 

[blagger]

Update


Ammonia 2ppm - not changed
Nitrite is showing 0.25ppm - not changed
Nitrate is showing 20 (previously 5-10)

 

[blagger]

I'm not sure where this is going right now, as I have seeded the tank its now not so straight forward for me. Could somebody please advise.

With the latest test results in the previous post they show an increase in Nitrates, meaning the Nitrites are being broken down. Also an increase in Nitrites which means the ammonia is being broken down.

As this is a seeded tank should I still expect a spike in the Nitrites?

Am I nearly cycled because of the increase in Nitrates?

Please help.

 

[Xraymark]

I can only comment on my own cycle which does not have the benefit of mature media.<br />Measured daily my nitrites have been mostly 0 with the odd 0.25.  With my ammonia dropping to 0 over 48h and my nitrates have steadily increased up to 160ppm..<br />Have to conclude that everything fine as its processing. End result is increase in nitrates as the end product.

 

[blagger]

Thanks for the reply. So are you cycled now?

Even with a seeded tank do I still need to carry it on so that around 2-3ppm of ammonia is giving double zeros every 12 hours?

Its so tempting just to go and get some Tetra Safe Start, as I have read this has worked well for some without any problems when adding fish. Simply add the product then 24 hours later add your full fish load.

 

[Xraymark]

Don't talk to me about my tank.

The first time I got to day 37 with ammonia not dropping at all.  I think I overdosed.  

So changed water and restarted.The next time ammonia started to drop after about  14 days and progressed well for 10 days. 4ppm  down to 0 over 48h, nitrites for the most at 0 and my nitrates steadily increasing.  Then decided to change my substrate to sand.  I have a internal filter which is basically a box which holds the sponges.  So after changing my substrate to sand and dechlorinating the water I replaced my sponges.  But my cycle stopped for 12 days.  I suspect that the de-chlorinator didn't get into the box and I killed all the bacteria.

So in essence I'm on my third cycle. It's only really kicked off again about 5 days ago again. 

 Your really lucky with your mature media that after a few days your getting results.I've used safe start.  My fish died 48h later. I've used it in a fishless cycle.  It still took over two weeks for the ammonia to drop. Stick with the 12 hour to get double zero's.

I suspect compared to me you will  be cycled relatively quickly.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Thanks for the reply. So are you cycled now?

Even with a seeded tank do I still need to carry it on so that around 2-3ppm of ammonia is giving double zeros every 12 hours?

Its so tempting just to go and get some Tetra Safe Start, as I have read this has worked well for some without any problems when adding fish. Simply add the product then 24 hours later add your full fish load.

With where you are, just be patient. You did the best thing, added mature media. When your tank processes 4ppm in 12 hours, you are fully cycled.


If you think of the cycle like a graph, the concentration of toxins are the vertical axis while the time is the horizontal axis. The ammonia part will start out spikes and decrease eventually. In a quick cycle, it will drop drastically, and in a slow cycle it will drop slowly.

Then the nitrite will "spike" up. It will shoot up quickly and take a long time to come back down. So the nitrite part of the graph will just look like a huge mountain as you look at the graph.

Then in the final phase they will continue to go up as you dose it and continue to drop as the days go on.


Adding mature media will shrink the duration on the horizontal axis, and the media will also cut down the height of the "mountain".

 

[blagger]

Don't talk to me about my tank.

The first time I got to day 37 with ammonia not dropping at all.  I think I overdosed.  

So changed water and restarted.The next time ammonia started to drop after about  14 days and progressed well for 10 days. 4ppm  down to 0 over 48h, nitrites for the most at 0 and my nitrates steadily increasing.  Then decided to change my substrate to sand.  I have a internal filter which is basically a box which holds the sponges.  So after changing my substrate to sand and dechlorinating the water I replaced my sponges.  But my cycle stopped for 12 days.  I suspect that the de-chlorinator didn't get into the box and I killed all the bacteria.

So in essence I'm on my third cycle. It's only really kicked off again about 5 days ago again. 

 Your really lucky with your mature media that after a few days your getting results.I've used safe start.  My fish died 48h later. I've used it in a fishless cycle.  It still took over two weeks for the ammonia to drop. Stick with the 12 hour to get double zero's.

I suspect compared to me you will  be cycled relatively quickly.

Sorry to hear that, hopefully you will get there soon , fingers crossed.

If safe start didn't work and killed your fish I'm not even going to attempt it, last thing I want with £100 of fish!

Will just carry on as it is. Thanks for the reply

Thanks for the reply. So are you cycled now?

Even with a seeded tank do I still need to carry it on so that around 2-3ppm of ammonia is giving double zeros every 12 hours?

Its so tempting just to go and get some Tetra Safe Start, as I have read this has worked well for some without any problems when adding fish. Simply add the product then 24 hours later add your full fish load.

With where you are, just be patient. You did the best thing, added mature media. When your tank processes 4ppm in 12 hours, you are fully cycled.


If you think of the cycle like a graph, the concentration of toxins are the vertical axis while the time is the horizontal axis. The ammonia part will start out spikes and decrease eventually. In a quick cycle, it will drop drastically, and in a slow cycle it will drop slowly.

Then the nitrite will "spike" up. It will shoot up quickly and take a long time to come back down. So the nitrite part of the graph will just look like a huge mountain as you look at the graph.

Then in the final phase they will continue to go up as you dose it and continue to drop as the days go on.


Adding mature media will shrink the duration on the horizontal axis, and the media will also cut down the height of the "mountain".

Thanks, off to excel to get a chart going, it'll give me something to do for 10 minutes.

 

[blagger]

Haven't updated this for a while, so here I am on day 16 fully cycled (I think).

Have updated the first post with all the data. After reading in many places that Tetra Safe start was a good product I used it on day 10, and it worked. When I added the safe start I also added 6x Red Eye Tetra just to keep the ammonia going.

On Day 14 I added 16x African Cichlids.

Today is day 16, I have been feeding 3x a day, ammonia and nitrites have both been 0ppm and nitrates between 40 and 80ppm.

So would you say the cycle is complete? Should I still test daily?

Planning to do a 25% water change weekly starting Sunday and clean the filters out monthly.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, looking at your log, you had ammonia when you added Safe Start, so you didn't need to add fish as an ammonia source. I would also mention that you've only had double zeros for two days now. So, you aren't fully cycled yet. You will know that you are fully cycled when you have seven straight days of double zeros. Personally, I wouldn't have added the fish until that had happened, with or without the addition of Safe Start. You used mature media, so I don't know that this in any way an indicator of whether Safe Start works or not.


I'd keep testing every day until you have seven days consecutive with no water change and the ammonia and nitrite both stay a solid zero. I'd also say that I am a bit concerned that seemingly your nitrates haven't noticably increased in a while. Maybe they did, or maybe they didn't. 40-80ppm is a pretty wide variance, although the colors do look very similar on the API kit. I'd do a water change to lower the nitrates to 10-20ppm, so that you will be able to notice what the value is. Another option to get a more accurate reading would be to add 1 mL tank water, and 4mL tap water (assuming your tap has 0 nitrates) and add the reagents as usual. Read as always and then multiply your result by 5. So, if you had 100ppm, adding the 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water would only show up as 20ppm. And 50ppm would show up at 10ppm on the test with this method.

 

[blagger]

I'd keep testing every day until you have seven days consecutive with no water change and the ammonia and nitrite both stay a solid zero.

Thanks, I'll keep testing until I get a clear seven days of double zeros.

I'd also say that I am a bit concerned that seemingly your nitrates haven't noticably increased in a while. Maybe they did, or maybe they didn't. 40-80ppm is a pretty wide variance, although the colors do look very similar on the API kit. I'd do a water change to lower the nitrates to 10-20ppm, so that you will be able to notice what the value is. Another option to get a more accurate reading would be to add 1 mL tank water, and 4mL tap water (assuming your tap has 0 nitrates) and add the reagents as usual. Read as always and then multiply your result by 5. So, if you had 100ppm, adding the 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water would only show up as 20ppm. And 50ppm would show up at 10ppm on the test with this method.

I'll do the 1ml tank water to 4ml tap water test tomorrow and post the results.

I'll also do a straight tap water test to make sure the readings are correct.

Thanks again for your input, really appreciate it.

 

[KittyKat]

Just thought I would point out blagger: you do realise that you have already exposed the tetras to enough ammonia that they will probably die long before old age? And the Malawi cichlids probably to enough to affect their health? If the tetras are still in the tank, it will not be long before the Malawi cichlids decide to start picking on them.

 

[blagger]

Just thought I would point out blagger: you do realise that you have already exposed the tetras to enough ammonia that they will probably die long before old age? And the Malawi cichlids probably to enough to affect their health? If the tetras are still in the tank, it will not be long before the Malawi cichlids decide to start picking on them.

Tetras were completely fine for the few days they were in there, I believe they were not effected thanks to the quickness of the safe start, they have now been moved to a different tank. The malawis are not adults and the tetras were not picked on, it was actually the other way round, fin nipping from the tetras, why they were removed.