Basic breeding tank size question

[tolstoy21]

Hi,

I'm new here to the forum and have a general question about tank sizes in terms of breeding fish.

My main interest for now is to just breed some of the fish I currently have in a 125g planted, mostly nano fish, community tank -- danios, tetras, barbs, rasboras. Most of my fish breed like mad in my community tank, but few fry (other than some salt and pepper corys)make it to adult hood. My zerba danios routinely spew eggs in the mornings at first light and the whole tank seems to yell BREAKFAST!

That being said, I'm just looking to see if I enjoy breeding outside of the accidental fry in my main tank (and see if can even do it) without investing too much up front (in case I decide it's not for me).

I've been playing around with hatching and raising brine shrimp, getting a micro worm culture started and seeing if i could culture infusoria, thinking if I cant raise food, i shouldn't even attempt fry. That's been successful so far.

I set aside 2 ten gallons I grabbed on sale for the purpose to start with trying to breed some CPDs and Cherry.

But, I was wondering the following -- and now to the question! -- What's an appropriate sized grow out tank in general for fish under 3 inches?

I was planning on grabbing a couple 30 gallons if I see them on sale anywhere. Is that too large, not large enough? Would a 20 gallon be a better option? Larger? Smaller?

I wanted a few larger tanks in case I was somewhat successful and wound up with a decent group of fish that I could think about trading into my local stores without introducing them back to my community tank.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want an elaborate setup, just something appropriately sized to raise a group of fish without them being over crowded once they start to mature, and me needing to do massive water changes all day long.

 

[AbbeysDad]

The carts before the horse.. You might first touch base with your local fish store to see IF they have any interest in 'buying' (either cash or store credit) and at what price from you AND what fish they would be interested in. Most retail fish stores operate on a times three basis. That is if they sell a fish for three dollars, they'd expect to pay not more than one dollar for the fish. So for many fish, you'd get a dollar each cash, or about $1.50 store credit. Not much money in it for small scale, but extends the hobby and helps pay for food.
When fry are fry, smaller tanks like 10g are fine. As they become larger, larger tanks may be required. A lot also depends on how many fish you grow out. Fish can do well even when crowded as long as the water remains good. I have some crowded tanks, but with bare bottoms, proper feeding, and 50% water changes twice a week keeps them in good shape. (Commercial breeding facilities often have hundreds, or even thousands of fish in vats, pools, or ponds - the key is with the feeding and flow through water supplies).
As you have already figured out, sustainable live food cultures not only benefit the fish, but also the wallet. The egg layer fry you plan to breed are small, so infusoria, paramecium, micro worms (&banana/walter worms) vinegar eels are all possible. (brine shrimp are great, but high maintenance and not sustainable). As fish get larger, daphnia and grindal or white worms are of benefit. (I think a warm temperature strain of white worms offer the biggest bang for the buck as they are incredibly prolific and can do well in dense populations.
And as with your adult fish, you need a high quality staple food in addition to live or frozen foods. I like flake foods as you can easily crush to make a good fry food. But read labels closely for the best foods where fresh or whole fish meals are listed before any grain/grain starch binder/fillers.
Good luck! ... and keep us posted.

 

[tolstoy21]

Thanks for the reply and the info! Much appreciated.

I'm not overly worried about making money or store credit for this, not at this juncture anyway. I'm just interested in 'trying' breeding as an extension of the hobby outside of currently keeping a large community tank, and some smaller ones around the house.

I picked up two 10 gallons on sale for $8 each and was going to pick up two larger two grow outs if I can also find those on sale (40 breeders were on sale, but a little larger than I wanted). This is why I asked the question about grow-out tank the size. I haven't outlaid much int terms of money and don't plan on spending too much more. Most of what I'm using I already had sitting around -- some old lights, pumps, heaters, sponge filters, etc.

I do plan on checking with stores in my area to see if and how they take fish for trade or money, but I'll worry about that later.

If I wind up breeding fish that have no home, they'll go in my 125 and I'll not breed any more. It's heavily planted and understocked at the moment. My original goal with all of this was to increase the amount of CPDs in my 125g because I really like that species. Same with cherry barbs.

Like I said, I'm just doing this to see if I truly enjoy it, can do it, and want to do it longer than as a short-term experiment. I've been researching this for a few months now. When I saw tanks on sale, I decided to finally give it a go.

If I really want to continue on with this, I guess my next challenge was to do exactly what you suggest -- see what the stores around me want (if they even take in fish for trade) and just try to make the project as self-sustaining as possible. My interest not in making money, just enjoying the hobby. Plus, I have plenty of basement space, and need a reason to tinker around down there to stay out of the wife and kids hair!

 

[CassCats]

I like to start very small for the smallest of fry and work my way up.

I keep 1/4 gallon containers for the first week, then move up to 2.5/3 gallon. Then once they outgrow that, up to 10 gallon, then finally to a 20 gallon.

But water changes are daily and I find smaller to start makes it easier.

Plus, smaller space makes it easier for fry to access food.

I've got cultures of cyclops, daphnia, scuds, baby brine shrimp, and grindal worm plus Hikari First Bites and Infusoria.

The baby brine shrimp are the most work of the food cultures. I make enough to store in the fridge alive for 2 days, and on the 2nd morning I start the next culture of baby brine shrimp. Lots of rinsing and time consuming but a routine is good.

 

[tolstoy21]

I like to start very small for the smallest of fry and work my way up.

I keep 1/4 gallon containers for the first week, then move up to 2.5/3 gallon. Then once they outgrow that, up to 10 gallon, then finally to a 20 gallon.

I have a hang on the side breeder box that uses an air pump to drip water into it from the main tank (I used to use this to drip acclimate shrimp).

Would it be advisable to move eggs into that and then let water from the larger ten gallon circulate through it? This way the newly born fry are confined to a smaller space for feeding etc., but will still have ten gallons worth of total volume from a water quality perspective? Then as they get a bit larger, move them back into the ten gallon?

Or, would dropping the level in the tank after the eggs are scattered and then slowly raising it as they grow work as another method?

Thanks for the tips and suggestions!

 

[CassCats]

I have a hang on the side breeder box that uses an air pump to drip water into it from the main tank (I used to use this to drip acclimate shrimp).

Would it be advisable to move eggs into that and then let water from the larger ten gallon circulate through it? This way the newly born fry are confined to a smaller space for feeding etc., but will still have ten gallons worth of total volume from a water quality perspective? Then as they get a bit larger, move them back into the ten gallon?

Or, would dropping the level in the tank after the eggs are scattered and then slowly raising it as they grow work as another method?

Thanks for the tips and suggestions!

Most fry are small enough to fit through the holes on most breeder boxes tbh.

Best method is to set up the breeding tank with the parents. Let them breed. Remove the parents back to the community tank.

Lower the tank water to just a couple inches. And as they grow, raise it.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I hear that 20g longs make a good fry tank.

 

[tolstoy21]

Most fry are small enough to fit through the holes on most breeder boxes tbh.

Best method is to set up the breeding tank with the parents. Let them breed. Remove the parents back to the community tank.

Lower the tank water to just a couple inches. And as they grow, raise it.

Thanks, lowering the water was the first method I was thinking of trying.

Just seeing if the breeder box would have worked as well. The only holes in it are very small slats that flow over into the tank (it's kind of engineered like a hang on the back filter). I was going to cover the over-flow over grate with a piece of fine sponge.

Tanks are just entering the nitrite phase of cycling right now, so I'll probably give this a go in like another two weeks with a few CDPs, some java moss in a simple glass dish used as an egg trap.