Any Pointers On What I'm Trying To Do?

[FISH-FRY]

So I wound up getting a 16G bow front tank on Saturday because my daughter saw this tiny 1G tank with her mom a few weeks ago and wanted a fish pet. I didn't go bigger because my wife accepted the size of space I stole from her.

I wanted to do live plants so I went with Flourite for the substrate. So now I have one Amazon Sword (Echinodorus amazonicus), two Anubias (Anubias nana), one Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) and two Tropica Fern (Microsorium Pteropus). I also placed a large artificial tree root that looks sort of like this but wider; mine has a wide hole on top that goes through the bottom.

I put in three Neon Tetras today and thought everything was fine. These guys were swimming at the store mid-level as they should and when I got them in after 20 minutes floating in their bag and didn't transfer any of that water over, they swam down to the ground and stayed around that depth. I have a timer that turned off the light and then they shot up to the middle of the tank. They were in the tank for about 4 hours with the lights on and initially one of them hid under the root while the other two were schooling. The shy guy eventually came out to join the others.

I have a 15W T-8 8,000K light and wondering if this is too bright for the Tetras. I will need it for the plants and even that may be a little on the dim side.

I plan on adding another two Neon Tetras in about a week or whenever I think it's safe to add them. Then add three Rasbora Heteromorpha Danios and then an Albino Cory Catfish.

I ran water tests and they've been fairly consistent with the following:

Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Hardness -150
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 0
pH - 7.2

I didn't really pay attention to the Alkalinity until after I added the fish...hopefully not too late and so far they're not floating...I thought 0 was good but then reread and ideal is 120-180.

How does the overall setup look?

Are there enough plants?

Are they a good mix/choice?

Is there enough room for more fish?

Should I get another catfish and maybe an Otocinclus or two if I start to get algae?

What can I do to keep the Tetras from hiding when the light comes on?

And most importantly is it safe to have my Alkalinity 0 (it actually looks between 0 and 40) and how can I raise it? I don't think I should try and alter the pH since it's at a desirable level. Do I just wait it out and see if it changes on it's own?

 

[lilacamy931]

Have you any ammonia readings? The neons may just be nervous as most new fish are. Have you any pics of the tank? it sounds good but hard to say without seeing The mix sounds fairly good though with the cory one on its own would not be very happy. Optimum number is 6 and minimum 3-4.

With the tetras, lots of tall plants might help bring them out more. As to algae eaters, with otos be careful as there have been stories of them latching onto other fish and eating their slime coating. Also if you keep up on water changes and have plenty of live plants and flow then algae shouldnt be too much of a hassle if at all.

No clue on alkalinity, I agree though not to mess with ph as a stable ph is better than a fluctuating one. Did you cycle the tank with mature media?

 

[fish_tank0311]

Ok, firstly, your tree root thing has the hole because its meant to be a filter cover. Some tanks you buy have built in filters, and the only bit you see in the tank is a clear tube sticking down, and the filter cover hides that. secondly, 3 neons isnt enough for a schooling fish, i would add at least another 5. And seen as their tiny, they should be good with the fish your suggesting in this tank. I cant really tell what your lights are, but if one of the tetras is hiding because of the light, it must be too much. If you have for example (i have this setup) 2 bulbs, and 2 switches (one for each bulb) just turn one on. I have a 22 gallon tank that only has 1 bulb, and its quite weak, and the plants are doing fine, and it looks like a classical south american fish habitat. Oh and alkalinity, well i have never done one of them tests myself, and all my tanks are thriving, so im sure its not very important. Your hardness is fine. Yes theres enough plants, but dont hesitate on putting more in. If your plants decide to rocket up, and look very nice and green, add a bit of liquid plant food, and then they will grow faster and greener, then you can sell the plants for a bit of pocket money. Thats what i do, but i have a UV filter, so i never have algae problems, and im not sure if plant food will cause that, but they MIGHT. Yes you have plenty of room for more fish. Have a look at my 22 gallon below. Its similarly sized to yours, kind of. And im doing just fine in there, and my angels are medium sized, not adults, but medium.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Fish-Fry.
Your plant selection sounds fine but, as is usual, some will thrive and others will not. I find that I can never predict which plants will thrive in my tank. Unlike Fish tank0311, I suspect that you do not have bright enough lights for the plants although some fish will indeed prefer less light. It becomes a choice of balancing the light needs of the plants with the tolerance of the fish. You may well notice that in a day or two your shy neon will find out that your tank is safe and will come out into the open more often. Almost all schooling fish are nervous types, it is a part of why they school. The low alkalinity is not really a problem for neons or cories. They really prefer water with low mineral content. I suspect your pH will easily drop with the low alkalinity so it would be best to keep an eye on that. The all in one test strips are not very well thought of here but they do tell you things that our typical liquid type test kits often don't, like alkalinity. It would be a good idea to get a test kit for ammonia as that is going to be the main thing you will need to control very soon. With only a very few fish, you may be spared the daily large water changes to control it, but do not add more fish until your filter becomes cycled and can support your current fish load without you measuring any ammonia or nitrites.

 

[fishyfeet]

You have no nitrates, therefore with fish in there you should have an ammonia reading, what filter have you got, and you should have cycled the tank before adding the fish, or are you cycling it with fish in, therefore you need to measure the ammonia and change the required amount of water to bring that reading down to 0 every day. di

 

[Gilli]

Did you cycle your tank before you added the fish? Either way if you did or you are cycling with fish the neon tetras will die - they must only be added to a mature tank of at least 6 months old - pref older as they are extremely sensitive to water conditions.

You say your nitrate is 0 which is practically unheard of so im guessing that you did not do a fishless cycle, in which case do not add any more fish.You have not given any ammonia readings which are very important - are you using the paper strips to test or the liquid test?

 

[Harlequins]

Hi & welcome

If this tank was bought and set up on saturday and neons added today,i'm afraid to say your tank is not ready for fish just yet,although some do a fish in cycle,i wouldn't recommend it with neons,has mentioned already these are extremely sensitive to water condition.

Have a read here Beginners resource centre,this will tell up about fishless cycling,a safe & easier way to cycle your tank.

Your filter needs cycling to handle the bio load from the fish.

Rather than let the neons suffer i would take them back for now and get a credit note.

Referring to your future stock neons, danios & corys all do better in a group of 6 or more has they're all schooling fish

Good luck

 

[FISH-FRY]

Here are some quick pics. I'll respond shortly.

 

[FISH-FRY]

Thanks to all for your responses and advice. Here are replies to questions.

I tested again today and these are the results.

Nitrate - 20
Nitrite - 0
Hardness -150
Chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 40-80
pH - 7.2
Ammonia - < 0.02

I used Seachem Ammonia Alert for the Ammonia test since nobody in the area carried the Seachem MultiTest: Ammonia. I called lots of places in the area so I'll look at getting it on-line.

I used an Aqueon Water Conditioner trial container when I filled the tank and using an Aqueon QuietFlow Power Filter 10.

The tree root is not a filter cover and has the hole so that fish can swim through. I added the driftwood today and stirred up the Flourite because I had to rearrange plants. Now my tank is a little cloudy again as seen in the pics. I'm not sure if anyone has used Flourite but it was a chore to get that thing clean without making the aquarium look like a murky pond. The water was mud when I began rinsing it. It's supposed to be great stuff for plants and you shouldn't have to add anything to it for the "life" of the aquarium.

I fed the fish some Aqueon Color Enhancing Tropical Flakes (another trial) for the first time since getting them and the tank finally got that "fishy smell"; it didn't have a smell before feeding them.

So far everything looks fine and the fish are up and about waiting for some more Neons to join them. I've heard that as long as the numbers add up and things are going well that I could add another couple fish in about a week. These guys are tiny and I've read that they do well in new aquariums.

Print, online and people I've spoken to have different opinions on what is best. I figured I'd give it a shot on this forum to see what others think. I really don't think waiting months to add a fish or two is really necessary.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, welcome to the beginners section fish-fry,

Well, you did well to increase tank volume from the anticipated 1G that your wife and daughter saw to the 16G that you obtained! Good move!

Its true that set up and first introductions of stockings of fish will vary wildly in different parts of the world with different types of tap water and different situations. You might just be one of the lucky ones and have your tank make it through despite the various risks! There's always a chance.

Those are good pictures. They show the classic milk-white of what we call a "bacterial bloom" which comes about as the water-born heterotrophic bacteria reproduce in great numbers as they eat some of the organics that come about from a new tank being glued together. What they will be producing from their "chow-down" will be ammonia but it may not be all that much, we'll have to see.

Your fish are doing fine right now since they've been put into a body of fresh water. By definition though, you're in what we like to call a Fish-In Cycling situation. I expect 3 neon tetras in a 16G might be just about the sort of bioload that a fishkeeper experienced in fish-in cycling would choose to cycle a tank, or it might even be a bit small. Of course, without a good liquid-reagent test kit, we'll never know.

What Harlequins was citing above was that the overall collective experience of many of the experienced fishkeepers here is that neons/cardinals statistically do better when introduced after the tank as been in operation about 6 months, regardless of when the filter finished cycling. This is just a statistic though, and again, you might turn out to be the rare exception! Also, it could be that if you are able to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low, they will survive the fish-in cycle without their longevity being shortened too much (ammonia, even it tiny amounts, causes permanent gill damage, so they will definately be getting at least a little of that.)

As mentioned, have a read of the Fish-In article by member "rabbut" and post up your questions here. The flourite is a good substrate choice for plants because it helps to serve as a "back-up" when you miss nutrient dosing days for your plants. Its unfortunately a bit of a problem with cories as its sharp edges will damage their barbells.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gilli]

You need to do an immediate water change - your Ammonia should be 0 . You will need to test every day and keep doing water changes.....

 

[FISH-FRY]

You need to do an immediate water change - your Ammonia should be 0 . You will need to test every day and keep doing water changes.....

If you have an API test kit it goes from 0 to .25 ppm on the card. What I have shows <0.02 ppm (Notice the decimal place) which is supposed to be safe. The next possible reading is 0.05 which is an alert, then 0.2 which is an alarm and finally a 0.5 toxic level reading.

So essentially with the API you go from "nothing" to an alarm where as the Seachem, you'll have a little of the "safe" stuff and then you're alerted with a 0.05 which according to the API card it's not "readable" (therefore still a 0) and then you reach the alarm that's a comparable reading to the API card. I don't need to go up to 5.0ppm because at .5 it's toxic to the fish and they will have died by them.

I have been testing every day and so far I have not seen any spikes although as of today I "can" start seeing a rise in ammonia prior to a nitrite rise by the end of the weekend. I try and test the same time and will do so later today.

What I am planning on doing, probably today, is replacing the Aqueon QuietFlow Power Filter 10 with a 20. I'll swap it out and leave the existing filter floating in the tank (it's an M size where the other is a L) for about a week and then pull it out.

 

[waterdrop]

If you can cut up some of the old media and wedge it in somewhere with the new media in the new filter it will help a lot more. Just floating in the tank won't do much. Its good that you're alert to the fact the range of .20, .25, .30 or so is the dividing line we like to stay below to avoid gill damage in a wide range of species (and yes, neons will be pretty sensitive.) As much as I like Seachem and many of their products, I'd be a little skeptical their chemistry can discern differences down at .02 etc. The important thing for you will be being a detective and figuring out what percentage and frequency of water changes will keep you between what looks essentially like zero ppm and a high limit of that range mentioned above. The way it builds up in the tank may not be particularly linear.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[FISH-FRY]

If you can cut up some of the old media and wedge it in somewhere with the new media in the new filter it will help a lot more. Just floating in the tank won't do much. Its good that you're alert to the fact the range of .20, .25, .30 or so is the dividing line we like to stay below to avoid gill damage in a wide range of species (and yes, neons will be pretty sensitive.) As much as I like Seachem and many of their products, I'd be a little skeptical their chemistry can discern differences down at .02 etc. The important thing for you will be being a detective and figuring out what percentage and frequency of water changes will keep you between what looks essentially like zero ppm and a high limit of that range mentioned above. The way it builds up in the tank may not be particularly linear.

~~waterdrop~~

I'm more concerned about picking up any traces of harmful ammonia and trying to do something to counter it as early as possible rather than getting a precise measurement. I tested the water before the swap of the new filter and have about .5ppm nitrite now. I'll keep an eye out and hope it doesn't go up any more before it goes back down to zero.

Wow that filter was really brown because of the Flourite and did not want to stick it in the tank although I did pass on the Biological Cartridge Holster and Grid. I'm also down about 1/2" on water due to the change and will wait on a water change to replenish. It's still plenty above the min. fill line for the heater.

 

[OldMan47]

At 0.5 ppm of nitrite it is time for a very large water change. A change of 50% or more would be warranted at that level. Although your ammonia may be fine, the nitrite also needs to be kept below 0.25 ppm.