Any body up for a challenge??

The Lumpfish Guy

Fish Crazy
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
390
Reaction score
208
I'm just saying these methods are not set in stone (law), they are experimental
I think you have a poor grasp of what experimental actually means.

*thump, thump thump* Is this thing on??

Holy smoke, kids. @Chad's right. Here. You're welcome.
I'm not debating chlorine/ chloramine removal

The OP suggested an experiment, on an animal/animals which has the potential to cause suffering or harm, in their house as a "Challenge"
This is not a topic to be bandied about as a challenge.
I may seem like a fanatic about this but it is serious and legally and morally important.
That is where I held my objection.
 
OP
itiwhetu

itiwhetu

Fish Herder
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,114
Reaction score
715
Location
Hokitika, New Zealand
Hi firstly I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this post. It is great to see there is passion out there.
It is a shame it has been tarnished and is now not a happy place to come for any of us. If someone wants to start a new post around the original subject ( Dechlorinating ) that would be great and I will be happy to contribute.
Just remember we all experiment all the time, this is not an exact science. And the more aggressive your approach to fish keeping and the advice you give, the more experimental you will be seen to be being from the outside community.
 
OP
itiwhetu

itiwhetu

Fish Herder
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,114
Reaction score
715
Location
Hokitika, New Zealand
Forgive me, because I'm a chemistry dunce - but even if we left the environmental impact aside (which we shouldn't) it wouldn't even work for hard water in the long term, would it? Only from my little research and discussion with you and @essjay about my hard source water (253ppm) with a KH of 10, and wanting a softer water tank for my otocinclus, even if I used organics like peat, driftwood, almond leaves etc, while they would help, my KH would buffer this and bring the water back to a harder GH, causing fluctuations each time I did a water change.

I don't think it's as easy as making any water soft, unless the KH is low enough for the organics to actually reduce the GH ? Or maybe I'm just confusing myself even more here :unsure:
Do a google search reducing gh hardness. One option is peat.
 

AilyNC

Fish Herder
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,938
Reaction score
2,488
Location
Ireland
Interesting debate here. Overall I think it's quite civil - disagreeing is normal. The issue of animal law wouldn't apply to fish keeping in your home & whether you let water stand, don't use Conditioner or use lots of sold additives.

My only input really is this - the thread is full of anecdotal evidence & it's not needed when you have research & evidence on the subject already out there. Some good scientific links in this thread. I would advise sticking to what is proven & tested to be safe as that's the most ethical approach & one supported by science.
 

AdoraBelle Dearheart

Fish Gatherer
Joined
Jul 22, 2020
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
4,096
Location
UK
Do a google search reducing gh hardness. One option is peat.
I have done some research. I'm chemistry challenged, so I admit a lot of it is beyond me, but I won't use peat because of the destruction of natural habitats that peat collecting causes.

But from my limited understanding, using botanicals to try to make my water softer won't work anyway. I was trying to find out because I bought otocinclus before I knew their soft water requirements, and even though they seemed to thrive in my hard water (253ppm/15 dGH), even appearing to be carrying eggs and spawn:
DSCF1740 (1).JPG


I found out they need water much softer than mine. I moved the guppies and shrimp they were with out, and began mixing my tapwater with rainwater, or RO when rainwater isn't available. A 50/50 mix to make it soft enough. Which seems to be working fine. But I believe if I were to use straight tap water with my GH of 253ppm and a KH of 10, that even with peat or other botanicals, the KH of my water would buffer the pH lowering effects of the botanicals, and wouldn't lower my GH at all, which is what I really need to lower. So RO water is really needed to actually make the water softer.

But again, chemistry idiot here, I may have this completely wrong.
 
OP
itiwhetu

itiwhetu

Fish Herder
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,114
Reaction score
715
Location
Hokitika, New Zealand
I have done some research. I'm chemistry challenged, so I admit a lot of it is beyond me, but I won't use peat because of the destruction of natural habitats that peat collecting causes.

But from my limited understanding, using botanicals to try to make my water softer won't work anyway. I was trying to find out because I bought otocinclus before I knew their soft water requirements, and even though they seemed to thrive in my hard water (253ppm/15 dGH), even appearing to be carrying eggs and spawn:
View attachment 117510

I found out they need water much softer than mine. I moved the guppies and shrimp they were with out, and began mixing my tapwater with rainwater, or RO when rainwater isn't available. A 50/50 mix to make it soft enough. Which seems to be working fine. But I believe if I were to use straight tap water with my GH of 253ppm and a KH of 10, that even with peat or other botanicals, the KH of my water would buffer the pH lowering effects of the botanicals, and wouldn't lower my GH at all, which is what I really need to lower. So RO water is really needed to actually make the water softer.

But again, chemistry idiot here, I may have this completely wrong.
I just use the peat pots you buy at the garden center. It doesn't take much to make a difference.
 

Chad

Reef Tank, Crustacean, and Puffer Enthusiast
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
8,879
Reaction score
302
Location
US
I assume this is directed at me, I think you might have missed the OP's point.
and we are also talking Chloramine not chlorine
Directed at everyone.
I mention chloramine in my post.

My point is that there isn't a need for anyone to repeat experimentation that has already been done on a topic that all the information we need already exists on. While this is a fun academic discussion where people can learn, an experiment isn't needed, just research on the existing literature.
 
Top