Another ammonia issue

[letterman7]

Hi all,
I'm not totally new to aquarium living, but it's been a few years since I've had one set up. What I have currently is a 65 deep (24" height). I have (2) OTB Fluval C filters on either end and an airstone for looks. Lighting comes from a Finnex LED fixture which I love for the programmability (even if it is only in 3 hour increments). I have 14 assorted small Tetra (Neons nd Glowlight), 2 small Cory, 2 Yoyo loaches and 7 Otos (though there could be less - they are very good at hiding and we haven't found all of them at once in a while). I have some floating Frogbit which almost covers the top (thinned out every other week), micranthemum, swords and some other small plants I can't recall the names off off the top of my head. All are doing well - some of the taller plants are straggly but I try to keep them trimmed so they'll off-shoot. Decorations include 2 large-ish pieces of real driftwood (Eucalyptus from That Pet Place in Lancaster, PA), and a few misc granite and sandstone rocks. Rear wall decoration is a dimensional fish-safe epoxy creation.
Anyway, a few weeks ago we had an ammonia surge. I'm still trying to figure out where it came from, but it seems that all the beneficial bacteria suddenly disappeared for some reason. The tank has been set up since April, and was well cycled before we added any fish. I had algae growing on the outflow of the filters and all that suddenly turned white and sloughed off. We had a sudden insurgence of a white fungus growth on all the live plants (mostly the Frogbit roots, but was on the leaves and stems of the other plants - all except the micranthemum) which has resolved since the pH reached a better balance. Hair algae is now starting on the driftwood, but I'm ok with that. That's easy to maintain.

Current water parameters are:
PH: 7 (adjusted with a stabilizing agent - it had dropped to 6.3 last week with all the water changes)
Nitrates/Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: off the chart high
hardness: high to very high (using only those test strip things - have yet to purchase a hardness tester)

I just purchased SeaChem's Ammonia test kit and it showed 0 (zero) free ammonia, but off the charts in total. Which I'm assuming is a good thing.

I've been doing 50% water changes every 4 days or so and adding AmmoLock with the changed water. I've added pre-filters and substituted the 'normal' floss filter media for a coarse mesh to help bacteria grow. We've been adding (over adding, probably) beneficial bacteria solution every couple days. It's been over two weeks since I tested the water and noticed the initial ammonia issue - but I absolutely cannot get the level to drop, no matter what I do. The fish, oddly, seem to be ok - gills look ok, no odd behaviours. I have cut back on feeding to once every other day in case that was/is part of the issue.

I'm totally at a loss. Out of the tap we have a fairly high chloramine level, so I've been adding SeaChem Prime conditioner to knock that down (and did run an independent test between the SeaChem and API products to see which worked better - SeaChem by a long shot). I've upped the flow through the airstone to see if that helps, but nothing seems to be.

So... I'm narrowing it down to missing Otos (if they are, indeed, dead and just not found) or possibly the driftwood. But I can't understand why I can't get it even remotely under control or why the bacteria aren't catching up the tank again.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Rick

 

[Ch4rlie]

Am not sure but could the white algae you speak of be a type of white fungus.

Some fungus in aquarium like normally shown as white fuzz on driftwood are harmless but have heard some white fungus can be toxic and have read @Byron speak of this in a few posts.

Not saying this IS the cause but a possibility as am unsure what else it could be aside from what you’ve mentioned about the ammonia being high in which case this could cause the high ammonia overwhelming the remaining bacteria causing the cycle to be crashed or of this could be down to the white fungus killing off all the beneficial bacteria in filter and tank.

A case which I’ve not come across before if am perfectly honest.

 

[Fishmanic]

You need to do at least 75% water change evrryday until ammonia and nitrites are close to 0. Look thoroughly for the dead fish and remove them. Dont overfeed your fish.. less is better at this stage:

 

[letterman7]

Nitrates and nitrites are at 0. Feedings have been far reduced, but I'll likely pull some of the decorations out to see what, if any, is dead. I think 75% is a bit extreme - then you risk pH shock if you do it every day.

 

[Fishmanic]

What is the ammonia reading using the api ammonia test? Are fish swimming and looking normal?

 

[Fishmanic]

For api test you need to shake bottles very thoroughly.

 

[letterman7]

I have both the API and Seachem test kits. API won't find free ammonia, just "all" ammonia. And that is somewhere north of 14 on the chart. The Seachem shows the same thing for all, but zero for free, which tells me that the ammonia is bound up with the combination of the ammo lock and water treatments. And yes, the fish seem to be unstressed.

 

[Fishmanic]

I still think you should do a 75% water change daily till ammonia level comes down.

 

[Ch4rlie]

What does your water source (tap or well water for those water changes) read for ammonia as well as other parameters?

 

[Naughts]

- then you risk pH shock if you do it every day.

This wouldn't be an issue if you were doing regular large changes and weren't adjusting the pH, what is your pH before you alter it?

It is vital that the pH stays acidic (less than 7) until all the ammonia has gone, otherwise the ammonia will become toxic and kill everything.

 

[Byron]

A few observations. First, if the plants include floating like Frogbit, and if they are showing clear signs of growing (as opposed to dying off) you would not see ammonia/ammonium unless something very drastic was occurring. A few dead fish, adding more fish, etc, cannot possibly increase ammonia with fast-growing plants.

The pH...do not ever use "adjusters" as these always cause problems for fish. Let the pH do what it wants naturally. You cannot safely or permanently alter the pH without dealing with the buffering capability involving the GH and KH. Can you give us these numbers? May have more when I know them. But leave the pH alone; if it is acidic, at least that means the ammonia is ammonium which is basically harmless, but still needs looking into.

Th background I assume is in the tank, you mention epoxy glue. This could be the issue (don't mean the glue necessarily, but the background, or both). The background itself might be causing ammonia or something else. The algae and plants turning white is a sign of something leeching from somewhere, it is not algae, and I doubt it is from the wood as the toxic fungus that can come from some wood would be on the wood, and not elsewhere. However, the mention of eucalyptus sounds warning bells...I am sure I have somewhere seen that this is toxic in a fish tank, but I can't be certain. You may want to research this yourself. There is something I have read years ago about this wood, just can't remember what.

The ammonia...have you tested the tap water alone? It may have ammonia. Second [point is that chloramine is a binding of ammonia and chlorine, and conditioners break these apart and deal with the chlorine but the ammonia can remain. Conditioners that deal with "ammonia" do so temporarily; they bind the ammonia into ammonium but this lasts 24-36 hours, then if still present it again becomes ammonia. If the pH remains below 7 this won't really matter.

Give us the answers to the GH, KH and tap water ammonia tests.

 

[Byron]

I just searched eucalyptus, and there is evidence from many sources that it is toxic. The oils it exudes are said to be something like cedar, those are deadly too. I will say though that I would expect the fish to be showing symptoms, though I do not know how this oil can affect them. Point is, the eucalyptus is dangerous.

 

[letterman7]

Hi all, I do not have the specific GH and KH numbers - I need to purchase a test kit for that. I'll look into that further tomorrow. We're on tap water, and it is fairly high in chloramine/chlorine, so the conditioners are essential (and, having run separate tests using both API and SeaChem to see which reduced the levels the most, SeaChem won by a landslide). The backdrop I made from an inert foam, covered by a known inert, fish-safe epoxy. I'm not concerned with that. The eucalyptus - yes, the stems and leaves are toxic, but oddly the roots are not, which is what we have in the tank. I can't imagine a large pet store (and even on-line) selling a known toxic product for tanks. I just did a 75% change today - let me see where the levels are in a day or so.

 

[Fishmanic]

If your cycle has crashed you can speed up recycling it by adding beneficial bacteria either from media from a cycled tank or by adding bottled bb such as Dr Tims One and Only or Tetra safe start.

 

[letterman7]

Someone had asked for a photo of the tank. Very bright this morning; tank is situated by a window that gets the early morning light. Doesn't affect the algae production Anyway, ran another complete test today sans the water hardness since I have to pick one of those up and some encouraging results:
pH 6.8
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm
Free ammonia: 0ppm
Bound ammonia: 4ppm

Which tell me the beneficial bacteria are finally active and reproducing. For Byron; the chloramine/ammonia level right out of the tap is 2ppm. With the SeaChem it drops to .5ppm (and with the API it only drops to 1ppm, so some beneficial research there). I think at the moment we're looking better. I'll likely do another 50% water change in a day or two and see where we're at.