Angels Preparing To Breed (i Think?)

[rossyt99]

Last night I noticed my Platinum Pearlscale Angels (3in body size) were starting to test each others strength; lip-locking etc..
(Vid clip to follow)
>I Didn't know they were M/F but it looks like they could be a potential pair!

I have re-homed them from that community tank to a 4ft tank which now only has a small L022Pleco in as other tankmate.

The tank has slate, smooth pipe and broad-leaf plants in as spawning sites, Temp; 82F, PH;7.0.

Questions to experts;
1. Will the Plec be O.K, and will he try to eat eggs?
2. Shall I separate the adults from the eggs to give better survival chance?
3. Usually, how long does it take for eggs to be spawned/ fry to hatch?


Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[england]

1. Will the Plec be O.K, and will he try to eat eggs?
I would have to say no to this one, my angels laid eggs last night and i woke up this morning to find all gone where as before never,,but resently ive added 2 bristlenose plec so think 99.99..999999% they had a midnight feast id say its a better probabilty to have just the breeding pair and nowt else

2. Shall I separate the adults from the eggs to give better survival chance?
I find that mine take better care of there eggs than i probally could but it might be an idea once the fry are free swimming to then rehome them in a fry only tank with a sponge filter<feeding with something like baby brine shrimp or micro worms

3. Usually, how long does it take for eggs to be spawned/ fry to hatch?
Well with mine i find they prepare the place then the breeding tubes nearly fall out of them then within 24hours eggs have been laid
then within 2days you get wiggling eggs stuck to the breeding site, then usually you will see the parnets collecting them in the mouths and probally move them to a new site,pick them up from time to time chewing them and spitting them back,developing before your eyes until nearly last stage the eyes appear,then after about 5-6days they will make little curved hops about 7th day then there free swimming,,,

with eggs

 

[rossyt99]

Thanks so much for your reply.

I will move the Plec to another tank> before the real action starts!

(+Another Angel breeder reckons they are best without Plec)



P.s; Nice Pics, Has your Koi paired up with Silver Scalare? (I've got a Koi/Silver together now)

 

[Colin_T]

The lip locking you noticed is how the fish choose their partner. If the opponent is weak and not a good enough combatant then it won't be selected as a partner and the fish will try someone else. Normally you leave the fish in the main tank until they actually pair off and lay eggs. Then you know they have accepted each other. When that happens you can move them into another tank if you want.
Sometimes two females will lip lock and pr off, likewise males will sometimes pr off with each other.

Catfish are normally fine with a pr of angels but they might try to steal the eggs at night.
Most new prs of angelfish will actually eat their own eggs shortly after they are laid. The next time they spawn, the eggs last a bit longer. The time after that the eggs are looked after until they hatch and then the wriggling fry get eaten. This goes on for a couple more times and then one day the adults are swimming around guarding a batch of fry.
They usually take 4-6 batches before they realise they aren't meant to eat the eggs or young. Some prs learn sooner and others never learn. Try to leave the adults with the eggs and see how they go. If they have more than 6 batches and keep eating them, then separate the pair and try with a couple of different fish.
The problem of angelfish eating their eggs comes from the breeders who artificially hatch the eggs and rear the young. These fry grow up without a mum or dad and as such they have no idea what to do when they mature. Instinct usually overcomes the problem but not always. Fish that have been brought up by their parents make much better parents themselves.

A pair of angelfish can lay eggs every week or so. The eggs hatch after a couple of days and the fry are free swimming a couple of days later. In warmer water the eggs hatch sooner, cooler water they take longer.
As soon as the fry are free swimming they can be fed on newly hatched brineshrimp.

Sometimes having dither fish in the tank will stop the parents eating the eggs or fry. The adults get preoccupied chasing the other fish away and forget about eating their kids. Dither fish are small peaceful fish that don't bother the angels too much. But their presence encourages the angels to become more protective of their young.

 

[england]

yes they are a pair,,,i had the koi angel for about 1year 6months then someone on here that lives local brought a new tank with the silver angel and two silver sharks which she didnt want so i brought them off her.....got home floated the bag then realised the angel in with the koi and it was an instant hit<not always the case>but in 3days i had eggs

 

[rossyt99]

Thanks Colin T> (I'll copy and paste that and save it along with Nellys answers!)

Nelly; You hit lucky with those two then!

I Will be monitoring the potential pair over next few days> the 'community' tank is now more peaceful + Angels now have plenty of space if they spawn. (I think their tubes are appearing)

+ The Plec is off to another tank soon...

Thanks again.

 

[rossyt99]

This is the behaviour which started yesterday; Click on; http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdoDxCCM8WE

 

[england]

looking quite possible,,,see what happens next if you see them cleaning slate/glass/filter/broad leaves together<more places than just one it will be a good chance there going to breed,,,,,,,,,also iam going to take a chance here and say that at the beggining section the angel on the right looks to me to be female<but thats not 100%.........good luck and remember 1st batch prob get eaten or not taken care of

 

[rossyt99]

Mmmm... I had a feeling the one on right at start of clip was a Male (Lumpier forehead) but who knows??

I know that two Females can sometimes act like a pair and lay eggs with no Male to fertilise.
(Hope this ain't the case!)


P.s; The one that you suspect is a Female has a longer extension to its bottom part of Caudal fin> whilst the other has an extension to its upper part of Caudal fin.... Any significance, or just random difference on Angels??

>I know other Male Adult Cichlids usually have longer extensions to the Dorsal, Caudal + Anal fins from past experience.

Cheers.

 

[Colin_T]

fin size and shape makes no difference in angelfish
In captivity male cichlids quite often develop a lumpy forhead. This is caused by a build up of fatty tissue and is used as a food reserve during lean times. The females rarely develop them and if they do it is never as noticeable as the males.
The only true way to sex angelfish (besides DNA testing) is to watch them during breeding. The females have a wider shorter ovipositor (egg laying tube) and the males have a longer thinner tube.

 

[rossyt99]

fin size and shape makes no difference in angelfish
In captivity male cichlids quite often develop a lumpy forhead. This is caused by a build up of fatty tissue and is used as a food reserve during lean times. The females rarely develop them and if they do it is never as noticeable as the males.
The only true way to sex angelfish (besides DNA testing) is to watch them during breeding. The females have a wider shorter ovipositor (egg laying tube) and the males have a longer thinner tube.

Yeah, so it's all just speculative guessing until they actually breed> would be nice to know, but I suppose time will reveal.


+ Another of my Angels (recently added) seems to have a weird pretrusion from Anus> it is reddy-brown with 3 short spiky bits, Not a normal poo!
He is 4inch and seems healthy and lively, but as yet has not eaten much after two days....I know they tend not to for first day in new surroundings, but I am a bit concerned at this abnormal thing at anus

Is he constipated, or could it be some sort of lice/tapeworm/other parasite??
(I've been reading up on Angel Diseases but I can't see any similar diagrams/descriptions)

 

[Colin_T]

+ Another of my Angels (recently added) seems to have a weird pretrusion from Anus> it is reddy-brown with 3 short spiky bits, Not a normal poo!

that sounds like threadworms (Camallanus). They are a parasitic intestinal threadworm that is common in many fish. Depending on where you live will determine what you can treat them with. Maybe look up Camallanus and see if anyone has any treatment info for your country.
The worms will disappear back inside the fish if you disturb the fish (chase after it for a few seconds). Then when the fish is relaxed the worms hang out again.
They cause anemia and eventually death. You have to treat the whole tank because any fish in there will have them.

 

[rossyt99]

+ Another of my Angels (recently added) seems to have a weird pretrusion from Anus> it is reddy-brown with 3 short spiky bits, Not a normal poo!

that sounds like threadworms (Camallanus). They are a parasitic intestinal threadworm that is common in many fish. Depending on where you live will determine what you can treat them with. Maybe look up Camallanus and see if anyone has any treatment info for your country.
The worms will disappear back inside the fish if you disturb the fish (chase after it for a few seconds). Then when the fish is relaxed the worms hang out again.
They cause anemia and eventually death. You have to treat the whole tank because any fish in there will have them.

I've studied it more and it is not constipated> the three 'hair-like bits' are reddy-pink (2mm) and has not restricted poo.

I'm in UK and will research the possible treatments> I have Meth.Blue, Protazin and Myaxin.

Could it not be just an additional feature of an adult Angel? (Hoping for an alternative theory!)

Anyone in UK with suggested Treatment?

 

[rossyt99]

Have researched the diagnosis/ treatment of the damn 'Camallanus' TWorm....

Seems like Garlic extract on food is an idea, along with 'Levamisole Hydrochloride' and 'Fenbendazole'?

+Having PH Below 7.0 helps (Mines 6.8) and a high Temp.

Hoping to get treatments soon + will monitor Angels behaviour like a hawk! (Feel like removing it with tweezers or something, but advice is that they are internal anyway)



....Aaaagh! B+/#*%$! I'll Probably post Pic. in another disease-based thread about this, for confirmation.

 

[Colin_T]

temperature & PH don't make any difference to the worms because they live inside the fish. Garlic won't do anything to them either. The levamisole hydrochloride should work, no sure about Fenbendazole