Angel Problem!

[a.i.m]

I bought a stunning looking semi-mature angel 4 days ago, on the day of perchase i said to my lfs dealer its mouth looks a slight bit lighter in colour than the rest its body? and he replied thats where it been mouthing the tank glass. At that point there was no real sighns of any concerning other problems. I slowly introduced it into my main tank, which holds young angels and a selection of plecs.

3 days ago - first problem noticed was it didnt want to eat, and was starting to look slightly uncomfortable looking for quiet places to hide- which is hard with a tank of busy young angels having small arguments and looking for food.
The second problem i noticed was stringy poo had started to happen and a tiny small bit of cotton like fungus appearing on its bottom lip, so i rang the lfs and explained the series of event unfolding to which he advised me to attack the fungus problem 1st.

2 days ago -A bit too late realy, i put the angel into a quarantine tank and bought some Anti-fungus and finrot treatment, put the dose in and watched closely.

1 day ago, well the fungus was looking bad now covering around its mouth, the fish was looking slightly more at ease and was swiming instead of trying to hide, but the stringy poo was still comming out though. I had a read up on fungus and read that a small amount of salt could be added to aid recovery. Ive normally got some salt knocking around in case of emergencys, i dissolved around two 5ml spoons in to a cup of hot water, then added it too the tank.
Straight away the fishes colour dissapeerd, and i could see things werent quite right, within 1 min the fish was looking bad, i quickly did a water change by removing half the water but it was too late the fish died very quickly.

Im sure i didnt over dose the tank with salt, the tanks volume is 10 gal, the salt i used was aqua tonic salt,
The quarantines tank water was half tank water half tap water, with 2 filters with mature media borrowed.
So the death has puzzled me totaly.
But what is happening to my main tank in also now very concerning!!!!!

 

[WILDER]

Sound like mouth fungus and could be constipation as well, feed some shelled peas and daphnia.

http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/hdcolumn.htm

Sorry he's died so R.I.P. do some daily water changes on the main tank, angel don't tolerate salt very well, how much did you add.

 

[a.i.m]

So as soon as my quarantine angel has died im now looking back at my main tank checking all the other fish, only to find the young angels are just starting to look bad.

They have started to breath fast looking totaly uncomfortable , my 2 jet white angels have all of a suddern got veins visable on there body with the 1s fins looking slightly split. I can see on some of the smokey grey angels veins showing too.

So 1st i did a water check, as i thought every thing was at the expected levels :

Amonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20
pH 7.1 - 7.2

i then rang my lfs telling them - 1st that angel has died,- 2nd my other fish have started to look bad, he said have you tested your water, of course i said its a new testing kit before you ask. I explained the symptons that were occuring and he said it sounds like the tap water im using has got something in it affecting the fish, and to ring up the water athourity to check if they have flushed the system lately.
He said do a 50% water change , and treat the tank with esha 2000.

luckly ive a large water butt with plenty of fresh rain water in, a couple of healthy gold fish, plants and wood, so i thought id better use that, just in case he was right.
I ph tested it and there wasnt a big difference, and did the 50% water change adding hot water from a kettle to bring it too the right temperature. ( also having to buy some esha 2000).
So now today the fish still are'nt quite right with the veins still showing on a few fish and them hidding around the tank, but no losses.

So now im totaly baffled as to what has gone down within my tank and im totaly guttled too.
As for there being something wrong with my tap water, theres nothing wrong with my other tanks which have there water changed every week.!!!


As for adding shelled peas and daphnia theres no need as the fish in now dead and as for the quantity of salt, im sure i did already post the amount ,i said two 5ml spoons.

 

[WILDER]

Not the writer of this information, for this you will need interpet anti finrot and fungus, plus interpet anti internal bacteria med.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)



Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.



Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.



Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.



How did you store the rain water as you can get parasites and chemicals in it.

 

[a.i.m]

ok so my water perameters are ok and im dosing with esha 2000, fungus, finrot and bacteria treatment there not a lot else i can do is there?
ive stopped feeding also to minimise the amount of amonia being produced.
so its time to wait and watch how things develop.

 

[WILDER]

Hope that med works as i have it and i find it more of a tonic than a treatment, i would rather go for the interpet range.

 

[a.i.m]

Rain water has been kept for around 1 year with lots of rain turning over the system regularly, the fish that live in it are fine as are the plants.

Ive also got interpet n0 8 antifungus & finrot but the fish shop said use esha 2000. im on my 2 nd dose of it out of 3 doses.

 

[WILDER]

That ok, don't no what the lfs are on about, as to me they sold you a sick fish and are trying to put the blame somewhere else, if columnaris mouth fungus is left untreated it will kill the fish.

See columnaris is a killer and it needs a strong antibiotic, but they are not available over here, so we have to use the fungus and finrot med plus the bacteria med, that 2000 med i have it it has small doses of a parasite med, plus fungus, plus bacteria, just hope it's strong enough, good luck.

 

[a.i.m]

do you recon to do all 3 esha 2000 doses then do a water change , then to redose with interpet anti fungus.....
do the water change with tap water? or rain as weve had a load last night?
ive been soo stressed over the weekend over it all. so many questions!!! and possible answers!!

 

[WILDER]

I would rather you use the tap water declorinated, finish the last dose as it a 3 day course, if no improvement do a water change run some carbon, then add the interpet meds you will need the finrot fungus med, plus an anti internal bacteria med, good luck.

 

[a.i.m]

thanks mate!

 

[black angel]

If the fish had columnaris which it looks like it did then this will transfer so fast you wont believe it. The salt solution you used wasnt strong and wouldnt have killed the angel, the columnaris can kill in just 12 hours.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[a.i.m]

cheers wilder, but im now torn between stopping my esha treatment incase its not strong enough, or do the last treatment tomorrow, or to start the interpet treatment asap ?
im concerned about seeing the veins in a few of the fish , only 1 fish has slightly split fins.
all my young angels are affected, their fins slightly closed and they are keeping well out of the way, but it doesnt seem to have got worse since i noticed yesterday.

 

[WILDER]

If torn fins are not caused by fin nipping, they are caused by bacteria through alot of causes, torn delayong fins can be secondary infection due to anothr deasese which yo have had in your tank columnaris mouth fungus, to treat this you need a bacteria med, not the writer of this information below.
Fin Rot



Symptoms:

Fish may have deteriorating fins, often with red or white edges. Secondary Fungal infections often occur.



Cause:

Bacterial infection caused by Aeromonas and/or Pseudomonas bacteria often precipitated by poor water quality, low water temperatures, or a combination of both.



Treatment:

You will first want to determine the specific cause of the illness, so check your water’s quality Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, and Nitrate levels as well as the temperature. Be sure to provide optimal water conditions and the correct water temperature for the species of fish you are keeping. Treat with Kanacyn, Tetracycline, Furacyn, Nitrofura-G or Penicillin. Basically, you want an antibiotic specific for Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria. The use of a medicated food is also wise. Treat the fish in isolation (i.e., quarantine tank) if only one fish is sick. If not, the whole tank should be treated. In either case, water conditions must be improved and proper temperature maintained for all fish. Adding salt to the water may be helpful.

The success rate for treating Fin Rot is good providing the illness is caught early and water conditions are kept optimal. Left untreated this infection can be deadly. Early treatment is essential! Once treated, fin tissue lost to this illness will grow back providing the fin rays and/or fin bases have not been damaged.