Ammonia Levels

[Mtvrdik10]

Hey guys you know I haven't quite been able to figure this out. I've been an avid fish tank owner for 10+ years now and have never really had many issues with ammonia levels or ph level's in any of my fish tanks. However, I'm having this problem with Ammonia right now. A rule of thumb i've always followed is that if the ammonia level reaches above 0.50 that's when it will start affecting your fish. I can't say EXACTLY what the ammonia level is at right now...but its certainly in the area ranging from 2.0-4.0. Possibly even a little higher. I've done my normal water changes...25% every 2 weeks.

I've even probably done some overkill with doing 25% every few days...just to try and see if that will help. It hasn't. I know i'm not overfeeding them...i'm feeding the same as i've always....the ONLY other possibilty I can think of is that maybe it's possibly overcrowded? Although i've still never had problems with ammonia with tanks with loads of fish.

Right now I have 2 tigers oscars, 1 pleco, 1 red belly piranha, 1 jack dempsey and 1 silver Arowana. While it looks like whoa.....none are that HUGE. The oscars i'm thinking may be the possible reason just because they're known to be dirty fish and well they're the biggest one's in there at the moment. I have pictures of the tank also...If need be I can show you them and you can see that they're not overcrowded...Any help would be great!! I almost forgot i've always tried a couple treatments that have yet to work...a couple products to get rid of Ammonia. Product make TOP FIN: Ammonia Remover and API: Ammo Lock. If you want pictures just let me know. Thank you.

 

[VaegaVic]

Hey guys you know I haven't quite been able to figure this out. I've been an avid fish tank owner for 10+ years now and have never really had many issues with ammonia levels or ph level's in any of my fish tanks. However, I'm having this problem with Ammonia right now. A rule of thumb i've always followed is that if the ammonia level reaches above 0.50 that's when it will start affecting your fish. I can't say EXACTLY what the ammonia level is at right now...but its certainly in the area ranging from 2.0-4.0. Possibly even a little higher. I've done my normal water changes...25% every 2 weeks.

I've even probably done some overkill with doing 25% every few days...just to try and see if that will help. It hasn't. I know i'm not overfeeding them...i'm feeding the same as i've always....the ONLY other possibilty I can think of is that maybe it's possibly overcrowded? Although i've still never had problems with ammonia with tanks with loads of fish.

Right now I have 2 tigers oscars, 1 pleco, 1 red belly piranha, 1 jack dempsey and 1 silver Arowana. While it looks like whoa.....none are that HUGE. The oscars i'm thinking may be the possible reason just because they're known to be dirty fish and well they're the biggest one's in there at the moment. I have pictures of the tank also...If need be I can show you them and you can see that they're not overcrowded...Any help would be great!! I almost forgot i've always tried a couple treatments that have yet to work...a couple products to get rid of Ammonia. Product make TOP FIN: Ammonia Remover and API: Ammo Lock. If you want pictures just let me know. Thank you.

We need to know more info to give you a hand.
1) How long has the tank been set up for?
2) Has the tank been cycled?
3) How big is the tank?
4) What temperature is it kept at?
5) pH level?
6) What type of filtration do you have?

With that info, we should be able to give you some help.

 

[Mtvrdik10]

The tank has been set up for at least 10 years. All of these fish are about....3-6 months old.

What exactly do you mean by cycling??

The tank is 55 gallons.

The temp is always between 76-78 degrees F.

The pH is 6.9

I have two penguin 350 filters.

Hopefully that helps out some.

 

[drobbyb]

The tank is 55 gallons.

There's your problem. You are very very overstocked. The oscar alone takes up the whole tank, much less the rest of the fish in there.

Are your nitrates still rising? I'm willing to bet that there are nitrites in there too. If you have the presence of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at the same time you have an under filtered or severely overstocked tank.

If you want to keep all those fish, you are going to need a much larger tank.

 

[Gilli]

Your ammonia needs to be at 0 ( as does your nitrite) I assume you have a proper liquid water test kit, if you do there is no need to guess just do your test. If you dont have one get one asap - no fishkeepr should be without one it is one of the most important pieces of equipment. Do not use the paper strips these are rubbish and wont give you an accure reading.

Any reading of ammonia is bad for the fish. You need to be doing 50% daily water changes until your reading is 0.

25% every 2 weeks is not enough - this needs to be done weekly with a thorough gravel vac to remove poo and uneaten food so that the toxins dont build up too much for the bacteria to break down.

I assume you never wash your filters and media out with tap water? If you dont then the tank will be fully cycled which means that the bacteria which is essential to break down the toxins has grown in the filter media to a sufficent level - this is called a seeded filter.

 

[Mtvrdik10]

You're saying that just ONE oscar, thats not even near its adult size takes up the whole tank?

Yes the tank is fully cycled.

If you guys want I can show you pictures? So you can get an idea of the size of all the fish.

The tank is very clean which is why i'm confused as to why the Ammonia level is so high. There is minimal fish waste, and they eat everything I feed them. Would it be best to just move the oscars to the other tank??? I was thinking about doing that anyhow.

 

[drobbyb]

We here on TFF recommend stocking our tanks with the fish's adult size in mind. Now I realize that a 5 inch oscar doesn't take up the whole tank, but you have to keep in mind that it will grow. Oscars are very fast growing fish, and will reach his adult size in about a year's time under optimal conditions.

We aren't trying to "beat you up" about your tank or your stocking, but if we didn't let you know that there was a problem, how can you fix it? We really have yours and your fish's best interest in mind.

To give you an idea of the tank size you would need to keep your current fish, lets take a closer look. Fifty five gallons is the bare minimum size for one oscar. You currently have 2. Two oscars would need a tank of about 80 gallons, maybe more. If I'm wrong someone will jump in and correct me. Ok, 80 gallons for two fish. Depending on what species of pleco you have, their minimum ranges from 15 gallons to 80 gallons. If you bought it as just a pleco, then it is most likely a common pleco. Common plecos reach 18 to 24 inches in length and need a suitably sized large tank. We already have 80 gallons for the two oscars, and adding the pleco would put the needed tank size up to about 100 gallons. The red belly piranha needs 15 gallons for each fish. Ideally they should be kept in a school in a species tank. That brings us to 115 gallons. The jack dempsy needs a 55 gallon tank by himself, but in a larger tank we can fit him in for an additional 30 gallons. This brings us to 145 gallons. The silver arowana needs 100 to 200 gallons all by himself, with much conflicting information. We can probably fit him in the tank as long as the tank is 6 feet in length and for an additional 80 gallons. That gives us a grand total of 225 gallons with double filtration due to the massive waste produced by these large fish, and I'm sure that I've underestimated some of these fish in their needs.

So as you can see, you need a very large tank to keep your current stock. Keeping them in that cramped 55 gallon tank is going to cause stunting, and the ammonia problem isn't going to get any better. I know that technically you could upgrade in the future, and if you can by all means do so, but we find that most of the time that money gets used for something else, even with the best of intentions. Stock your tank for the adult size from the start, and you will have no problems.

May I ask what find of filtration you are using? You need to be doing massive waterchanges, 80% or larger every day until you can sort out the problem and get it fixed.

 

[erk628]

Hes using 2 penguin 350's. I agree with everything that Drobby said except one thing kinda. I feel the minimum tank size for one oscar should be 75 instead of 55. A 55 is only 12 inches wide and an adult oscar can grow to be 14 inches long which hes gonna have a heck of a time turning around in a 55. My adult oscars only about 10 inches so hed fit but you won't know tell hes full grown. So its better to get that 75 and have that extra 6 inches incase he does grow past 12 inches.

 

[Mtvrdik10]

Oh don't worry i'm taking no offense to anything any of you guys are saying. It's all useful information. I'm just surprised that some of these fish need this much room. Being in the fish business for so long I'm shocked fishes need THAT much room. I have a seperate tank I can put those 2 oscars in by themself. Another 55 gallon. Or worst case scenario I'd trade them in at the local aquarium that I go to.

I am doing as I mentioned 20-40% water changes every day or every 2 days to try and fix the problem. I have a 110 gallon that i've been working on restoring for sometime, and well looks like i'm going to be putting that to use sooner than I had anticipated haha. However, by the time all these fish met their maximum size i'd surely have split them up by that time. I don't believe they'd even reach their max size in that tank anyhow, nor would I sit around and wait to find out haha.

 

[erk628]

Doing the water changes will help but its not the solution to the problem. What the problem sound like is that your overstocked. So instead of doing things thats just going to just help a little bit why not work on the solution to the problem and rehome the fish. A 110 gallon will be big enough for the two ocars and thats it and thats only if there a mating pair if there not and once they get older you will have fighting problems. The arowana is a must rehome because even a 110 gallons is not big enough for him by himself. The pleco needs identified to really no what to do with him. If I was you I would rehome them all and do some research on fish for the size tanks you have and start over.

 

[drobbyb]

Yeah, I kinda feel that a 75 gallon tank should be the minimum for an oscar, but there is so much conflicting information out there that I just said 55 gallons to make it easier to accept.

I'm glad that you aren't taking this the wrong way. So many people thing that we are just out to pick on their tanks, but we really aren't. We are just trying to help. I been in this business for 17 years now, and before I found this forum, I was still using the old school of thought. The year and 4 months I have been here has taught me more than my previous 15 years in the hobby, including working for a few fish shops. As far as the information on this forum, it's top notch. With all the bright minds and experienced members that we have, we are as close to cutting edge that you can get. I know a lot of the information is foreign, but if you really pay attention and think about what is being said, you can really learn something. It's great

Ok, as far as the ammonia goes, you will really be needing to do more frequent waterchanges. As little as .5 ppm of ammonia can permanently damage your fish's gills. Anything above .25 ppm is bad news. This is why you need your own test kit. If you have 2.0 ppm, that's a potentially lethal dose. You need to be doing 80% waterchanges everyday to get it under control, and limit feeding to once every other day. That's not going to fix the problem though, but it will save your fish. To address the underlying problem we need some more information from you. Did you replace your filter inserts lately? Did you replace or rinse off your bio-wheels in tap water? Did you forget to add water conditioner? Have you added any new fish recently?

 

[Mtvrdik10]

I never change the wheel. I learned long ago that that's a huge mistake. I add the proper water conditioner after each water change. I just recently replaced the filter cartridge. Within the last 48 hours. No new fish have been added either.

 

[roadmaster]

I am on board with most of what has been said.
Were it me,, I would test the tapwater to see if it held ammonia and at what levels.I would also be using a water conditioner/Dechlorinator that clearly says on the bottle that it detoxify's chlorine,chloramines,and AMMONIA. Product PRIME and or AMQUEL+ are very good at this and are used by many. Not all water conditioners are same, some only remove chlorine and others will separate the chlorine from chloramines but leave the ammonia for bacteria in filter to process. Add to this large messy fish such as Oscars and Plecos and waste produced by these fish, and you can see that a full function water conditioner such as the two mentioned, is needed.
You may have noticed that when Oscars eatm much of what they eat ,passes through and over their gills and escapes back into the aquarium. they are indedd messy fish that will continue to produce more and more waste as they grow. Ditto for the Pleco.
I might consider reducing the amount of food offered and frequency of feedings if more than once each day and see if conditions do not improve . Frequent Water changes and gravel vaccuming will be needed for the life of the tank with present occupants. Do check the tapwater for ammonia content. If it is present at higher than 1ppm, then doubling or tripling the dose of dechlorinators mentioned may be helpful. Product PRIME can be used at nearly five times the recommended dose without harm to fishes but would not be needed at that rate, unless as mentioned your source water has elevated ammonia levels.
Hope some of this helps.

 

[Assaye]

Listen to what these guys are saying about the fish and stocking levels. It's brilliant advice. These fish need a much, much larger tank and things will only get worse if you don't upgrade them soon.

Also the advice about water conditioners was great. You need to have one that removes heavy metals, chlorine, chloramine and ammonia associated with chloramines. Anything less could well leave traces of ammonia in your tank.

Some reasons why you might be getting such high ammonia readings:

1) Filters are too small to cope with waste
2) Not cleaning gravel weekly
3) Over feeding
4) Overstocked tank
5) Ammonia in tap-water
6) Cleaning filter media too much or replacing media

With such a heavily stocked tank and such messy fish, you need to do about 30-50% water change every week. 25% every two weeks is risking your nitrates really skyrocketing and with all the chemicals and waste in the tank who knows what is happening to your pH. There are also loads of "minor" elements in the tank that we don't test for but that need to be diluted or removed with regular water changes. Nitrates are only the tip of the iceberg.

To get high levels of ammonia down you need to do massive daily water changes (or even twice daily) in the short term and you need to fix the long term problems ASAP.

You're looking at a 6 foot tank that is about 200 gallons, ideally more. You can get around the volume by rehoming some fish but you're still looking at a very long tank because they are all HUGE fish that need a lot of room. You know how you feel when you've been sitting still too long? Kinda achey? Fish gunna feel the same way in a tank too small. It's be like you living in your bathroom 24/7, or keeping a kitten in a box. They can't get out and stretch their fins so we've gotta give them enough space.

 

[indigoj]

Just reinforcing the advice already given, you are way over stocked and under filtered and if you resolve this then chances are your ammonia problem will be resolved too.

Until then, lots and lots of water changes are required.