Ammonia In Soft Water?

Seed_Lord · Oct 21, 2011

Hey peeps,

Selling some discus to a guy on ebay, just generally chatting about his set up etc, he mentioned his friends got a cycled filter ready, but he said ammonia isnt a problem in soft water (6ph)and is harmless which i've never heard of and dont see how that would be true? just wanna double check so i can give him the right advice if he isnt right.

cheers

CezzaXV · Oct 21, 2011

I'm not seeing how it's true, but someone may prove me wrong.

My tap water is really soft and has a pH of 6.4. Every time I add ammonia, the pH skyrockets.

Juggler75 · Oct 21, 2011

I believe ammonia is toxic at all pH levels but gets 'more' toxic as the pH rises e.g. fish may survive a reading of .5ppm at pH of 6 but that reading would be deadly to all fish at ph8.5. It may be that he has just been lucky so far if he allows ammonia in his tank.

As always happy to be corrected

Mikaila31 · Oct 21, 2011

It is somewhat true actually. Ammonia can exist in different forms, since it is both an acid and a base technically. These forms depend a lot on the pH. Ammonia NH3 is what causes most of the harm to fish, its more present in basic conditions. When pH starts to go below 6 you get mostly ammonium NH4+ which isn't anywhere near as toxic, but still isn't something that should be overlooked. Either form can be used by the filter bacteria, so while ammonium may not be as toxic as ammonia. The nitrite they both get converted to is the same. Basic understanding of the cycle is if ammonia/ammonium spikes nitrite will follow. Test kits detect both ammonia and ammonium normally.

Seed_Lord · Oct 21, 2011

Cheers for the advice guys will pass it on

Juggler75 · Oct 21, 2011

Found the link where I'd read that http

/dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html

Seed_Lord · Oct 21, 2011

got this message after c&p advice from here 'look we are going to fall out if your going to try to teach me to suck eggs.. and discus should not be kept in water with a PH of 7.5 even i know that.. Special filter media exists that absorbs nitrates.. look it up. pretty much common knowledge. i know how the fish cycle works.. ammonia into nitrites, then into nitrates.'

so he aint getting the fish, proper annoyed me was giving him friendly advice to make sure my fish where going to somebody who know the ins and outs, im a novice hence why i questioned it, some people.

p.s my discus have spawned in 7.5ph water, so obviously doesn't bother them that much. Cba with people like this i take in every bit of advice whether or not i think its right or not. Annoyed to the max right now.

and i think he means by 'special filter media that absorbs nitrites' means...well...a cycled filter. correct me if im wrong.

Mikaila31 · Oct 21, 2011

Seed_Lord said:
got this message after c&p advice from here 'look we are going to fall out if your going to try to teach me to suck eggs.. and discus should not be kept in water with a PH of 7.5 even i know that.. Special filter media exists that absorbs nitrates.. look it up. pretty much common knowledge. i know how the fish cycle works.. ammonia into nitrites, then into nitrates.'

so he aint getting the fish, proper annoyed me was giving him friendly advice to make sure my fish where going to somebody who know the ins and outs, im a novice hence why i questioned it, some people.

p.s my discus have spawned in 7.5ph water, so obviously doesn't bother them that much. Cba with people like this i take in every bit of advice whether or not i think its right or not. Annoyed to the max right now.

and i think he means by 'special filter media that absorbs nitrites' means...well...a cycled filter. correct me if im wrong.

Yeah discus can be spawned it quiet variable water conditions. There are quiet a few breeders in the twin cities area and we tend to have hard water. Some use RO and others make due with tap. Theres a for sale post on our local forum ATM for GBR raised in a pH of 8.

By 'special filter media that absorbs nitrites' he likely means chemical media, things like nitrazorb, which are generally not recommended on here.

Seed_Lord · Oct 22, 2011

he said they are Substrat pro, which looks just like a diff type of media to me. then asked to fight me. lol strange guy, to be fair did go a bit nasty cos he took me trying to give me advice the wrong way rather than explaining his methods of keeping discus. Collected all my info off breeders and this forum so obviously wasnt giving him bad advice just different to what he does.

BigbruiserAl · Oct 22, 2011

Seed_Lord said:
got this message after c&p advice from here 'look we are going to fall out if your going to try to teach me to suck eggs.. and discus should not be kept in water with a PH of 7.5 even i know that.. Special filter media exists that absorbs nitrates.. look it up. pretty much common knowledge. i know how the fish cycle works.. ammonia into nitrites, then into nitrates.'

so he aint getting the fish, proper annoyed me was giving him friendly advice to make sure my fish where going to somebody who know the ins and outs, im a novice hence why i questioned it, some people.

p.s my discus have spawned in 7.5ph water, so obviously doesn't bother them that much. Cba with people like this i take in every bit of advice whether or not i think its right or not. Annoyed to the max right now.

and i think he means by 'special filter media that absorbs nitrites' means...well...a cycled filter. correct me if im wrong.

You can get sponges that claim to absorb nitrates but there to my knowledge are none that can back it up with test or even long term over a week or so. The only sure way to remove nitrates is plants ans water changes :good:

Ammonia is less toxic in lower ph which can be soft water, shouldt reallt be a point there should always be 0 in any tank.

Juggler75 · Oct 22, 2011

I agree with you Al but the data suggests that the lower the pH and temp the more of the test result is actually the non toxic ammonium rather than ammonia which most tests cannot differentiate. safe side always aim for 0 though.

Seed_Lord · Oct 22, 2011

Juggler75 said:
I agree with you Al but the data suggests that the lower the pH and temp the more of the test result is actually the non toxic ammonium rather than ammonia which most tests cannot differentiate. safe side always aim for 0 though.

Yea fact is he said ammonia and not ammonium, maybe if he got that bit right i woulda researched it and found that out, obv i know ammonia is very bad for fish, espesh discus, which is what i told him, but spit his dummy out.