Amazon Biotope

[Krib Crazy]

Im thinking about starting an amazon biotope in my 30 gallon. I saw in the Amazon Abysse and it inspired me. I was thinking about a sand bottom a with some leaves on the bottom. A lot of bog wood a roots on the back wall and some amazon sword, java fern, and java moss. I am thinking about these fish:

cories
rams / apistogramma
angelfish
cardinals
needlefish
hatchetfish
oto

Does anyone have a picture of a amazon biotope??

So what do you think. I know I cant keep needlefish with hatchet but I need to make up my mind. Do you think I could add anything or maybe take things away.

Your help will be greatly appriciated!! Thanx in advance

 

[simonbrown403]

Personaly i,de stick to the apistios, corys and cardanals, and maybe some ottos to keep stocks light
I,de be worryed about the angles and the cardanals together, they will probably become lunch.

Here's a site for you:

http/images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

 

[Krib Crazy]

Great Pics Thanx alot Simon

What would be the perfect PH and Gh for a tank like this? Im trying to make the ideal enviroment. I have a couple more questions:

Can rams and apistios go together?

I have never seen a apistios in my LFS are there anygood sites with good fish that I can get them from?

I guess im gonna need another center peice fish then any ideas?

Sorry about all the questions. You have been a big help to me already.

 

[simonbrown403]

Natural water parameters of the amazon can be a little extreme for the aquarium, PH can be as low as 4, with virtually no mineral content at all (due to humic acid from wood and roting vegetation).

Try to maintain a PH of 6.4 to 7 and a GH around the 3' to 6', remember a stable PH is always the main priority, so try to avoid using additives to maintain your PH, if you need to use a tap r/o water mix.

Through personal experience i would say no to keeping rams an apistios together, the rams always come off worst.
Also i prefer to keep them in pairs to minimize aggression, but others do keep them in harems, with say 3/4 females to 1 male.

As for buying fish online i,ve never done it myself, i prefer to go to a shop even if i have to travel a little and see what i,m buying first hand.

If you intend to go for apistios they are quite colorful and entertaining, they make a wonderful centerpiece in there own right IMO.

 

[Griz]

IMO you will need to decide between rams OR apistos - the tank is really not large enough for both. Along with them, a school of cardinals, corys and ottos would make for a nice setup. I also think that depending on the numbers of these fish you decide on, you could also have a small group of hatchets since they are top dwellers and won't compete for space with the others. Pencilfish are another interesting Amazon native to consider.

As for pH and hardness, what are your tap water stats? Ideally you want a pH that is neutral (7.0) or slightly acidic, but really, anything up to around 7.5 or so is just fine for these fish. (Breeding is, as always a different story) GH and KH are probably going to be fine unless your water is extremely hard. There are natural and safe ways to lower these numbers through the use of wood and peat. Don't mess with chemical solutions.

Here is another link with some good information on biotopes. http/fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm

There are plenty of good sources for Apistogramma on the 'net, and in fact this is a good way to obtain some excellent stock for these fish unless you are fortunate to live near a breeder. I'll leave recomendations to others with more first-hand experience.

You will have to decide you strictly you intend to keep to the "biotope" idea. Some can be extremely exacting as to flora, fauna and tank decor and in practice are somertimes not very interesting. For example, a "true" biotope for most Apistogramma would be a tank full of leaves, high fish density, and some corys in there. It's more practical to stike a balance between a tank that you will enjoy and providing the best possible conditions for your fish.

 

[Krib Crazy]

Thanx Simon for the help but what is r/o water? Ive heard it but never new what it meant.

I saw a pencilfish they are pretty im thinking about adding 1 or 2. Griz thanks for the link it gave me a idea of of what im going to do.

I would like to know are needlefish suitable for this type of ecosystem because I saw one in a tank and wanted to know would it work? They are the coolest looking things

Ive decided to go with apistios they are a little bit prettier than rams IMO.

About food for these fish I was thinking about going for live food like guppies fry, frozen bloodworms, misquito larva once it summer comes around and flake food. What do you think?

Thanx again

KC

 

[Krib Crazy]

Here are the plants that I want to get for this tank:

Echinodorus amazonicus.
Dwarf sword plant (Echinodorus tenellus)
Hair Grass (Eleocharis acicularis)
Amazon Sword (Echinodorus paniculatus)
Cabomba
Myriophylum

These plants shouldnt be too hard to keep right ?

Griz my water out of the tap is 7.2. I think I am going to reduce it to 6.8. I am going to post some pictures that will be my inspiration. Griz I went to your website and saw your tank I like it alot. What type of light do you have? Do your plants grow well in it? It looks like a low light tank and how did you get your water that color?

Like always Thank you guys for helping me

KC

 

[Krib Crazy]

I want it to look somewhat like this. But without the discus and only one stump my tank isnt big enough for more than on focal point. Or I could put two stumps on each back corner

 

[Fish_Mike]

Let me just tell you that an Amazon Biotope will be VERY difficult to maintain.

You also need to decide on what sort of biotope you want to replicate. Just choosing random fish found in the giant Amazon River, sticking in some sword plants and leaves is certainly not a biotope. You should do extensive research on what part of the Amazon you want to duplicate, and decide what fish that live in the area you like.

I've only said this once before, but in most places in the Amazon, there is no measurable hardness and a PH of about 4. This PH will kill any filtration, and so, you will need to do water changes every day.

But I think the first step is to choose what sections of the River you want to replicate, then we can continue on from that After all, the Amazon is the second largest river in the world

 

[Krib Crazy]

I want to do the blackwater enviroment. I was just reading up on it on the internet. I know it is a challenge and I think I am ready to over come it. If and/or when I run into trouble I have some of the best people right here to ask for advice.

 

[Krib Crazy]

I have some more pics for ideas I dont know what I want though maybe you guys can help

I really like this one along with the other pics probably going to incorporate the 2.

 

[Griz]

Griz my water out of the tap is 7.2. I think I am going to reduce it to 6.8. I am going to post some pictures that will be my inspiration. Griz I went to your website and saw your tank I like it alot. What type of light do you have? Do your plants grow well in it? It looks like a low light tank and how did you get your water that color?

Like always Thank you guys for helping me

KC

7.2 will be just fine although you should be able to that lower that a bit with the addition of some bogwood and by using peat. The water colour in my tank is the result of adding peat granules in my filter (Aquaclear 200) I put them into a nylon stocking and change them about every two months. In my case it doesn't lower my pH very much but I love the look. My tank would be considered low-light, just one 20W Aqua-Glo. The fish I have do prefer low light and although my plants grow rather slowly, they are healthy and have done well for more than a year now. I'vr had good luck with Java fern, sword and crypt. (Only the sword plants are found in the Amazon and in truth, I don't believe that they are found in the same area as most of my fish) I tried Cabomba but it slowly died off over a few months. I cut the tops and replanted them and they survived a while longer. I think that I just didn't have enough light for them but they were nice while they lasted.

I don't know anything about needledfish but I do agree that they are a very interesting looking fish.

I agree with what Fish_Mike says. Decide how strictly you want to adhere to creating a true biotope. It will be very challenging. Research, research, research.

Just a word about "biotopes". People have very different ideas about what that means. I think that the more you research, the more you will discover that a true biotope cannot really be accomplished in the average aquarium, especially one as complex as those found in the Amazon. Still, it is something that can be very rewarding to aspire to. Your fish will certainly appreciate it and you will be rewarded with healthy fish and natural behaviour in a beautiful environment. The more you learn about the fish you keep, and how they exist in nature the better able you will be to keep them healthy. IMO a lot of fish keepers neglect this aspect of the hobby. Not only are they are missing out, but it can be a source of trouble. Many of the "problem tanks" you see are a direct result of failing to understand how fish live in nature. Personally, I set out to create a biotope. But now that I have learned more, I prefer to call it an Amazon inspired community tank.

 

[fish_keeper2]

ive been thinking about the same thing. this is the tank ive been thinking of doing: 29 gal, stock would be 1 angel, 1 male/female pair of german blue rams, 3 albino corries, 3 ottos, and 5-7 cardinals or neons(i know the risk of them getting eaten and my angel is pretty small atm so he may never decide to eat them), lots of driftwood, and all live plants including java fern and amazon swords. i will also use blackwater extract. would this idea work out? also what other plants would work?

btw sorry for hijacking the topic.

 

[Krib Crazy]

These plants will work I looked it up on the internet

Echinodorus amazonicus.
Dwarf sword plant (Echinodorus tenellus)
Hair Grass (Eleocharis acicularis)
Amazon Sword (Echinodorus paniculatus)
Cabomba
Myriophylum
And I think Griz said crypt ( not sure so dont qoute me on this )

I think that would work thinking doing the same thing that you are. You should use peat to get the tea color.

 

[Fish_Mike]

Well, Cobomba comes from Asia, I think, and Fishkeeper2, German Blue Rams are cultivars. You won't find them in the wild.