Am I On The Right Track?

[ebrcknrdg]

I admit i am not a complete newb to the fish keeping world. Ive had my 32L tank for almost a year and its been a great way for me to learn about the basics before my upgrade to my 125L tank. I still confess to being rather uneducated about cycling, testing the water, keeping plants etc etc. Ive done great with my little tank up until the last month, i had no fish die, i even had a platty baby survive and almost fully grow until i had a PH crash in my tank and 6 of my fish died, including 4 neons, the baby platty and a male platty.

However, this time round i want to make the best tank i can with the money i have available. I have so far done lots of research on the internet and on this forum, and with the knowledge i have gained i have bought the best my money can buy, spending in excess of £350 (i havent got all my plants yet and still need to buy a couple of bits)

I would just like to know if you think i am on the right track?

I have so far purchased;

an API master test kit for when i do fishless cycling
Tetra 5 in 1 strips for quick readings
a nutrafin CO2 system (i will probably get another when i start to build up my plants)
a Hydor Ario 2 Colour Submerged Air Pump Aerator & Light
Juwel Rock Background Rock 450
25 live tropical fish plants (i have some already in my 32L tank) and one plastic one
5 moss balls
Plant weights
changed the daylight + warmlight for a 20w (18,000k sectrum) aqua-glow and a 18w (spectrum?) arcadia lamp
stress coat
ammo lock
waterlife sterazin
bog wood
various rock


I need to purchase;

a larger gravel cleaner
pure ammonia for cycling
plant fertilizer
extra sponges for filter (i have removed the carbon and nitrate sponges)


Is there anything ive missed or should think about including? I fully intend to take my time properly cycling this tank and looking after it whilst keeping my smaller tank as an emergency tank. Am i on the right track?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

sounds good to me

one query or issue you may not have thought through, why the air pump and Co2 kit?

if you are going down the planted tank route and adding Co2 then the last thing you want is to have an air pump running too, it will drive off the Co2 that you are adding. however some people will run the Co2 in the day time and air pump at night i think it can work this way to give the best of both worlds so to speak. just incase you don't know.

also while it's not a massive issue you don't want to plant the tank too heavily while cycling as the plants absorb the ammonia as their fertiliser of choice, heavy planting can interfere with your cycle.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

sounds good to me

one query or issue you may not have thought through, why the air pump and Co2 kit?

if you are going down the planted tank route and adding Co2 then the last thing you want is to have an air pump running too, it will drive off the Co2 that you are adding. however some people will run the Co2 in the day time and air pump at night i think it can work this way to give the best of both worlds so to speak. just incase you don't know.

also while it's not a massive issue you don't want to plant the tank too heavily while cycling as the plants absorb the ammonia as their fertiliser of choice, heavy planting can interfere with your cycle.

Yes i plan to run the air pump at night as it also has a nice green light on which will allow me to view the fish. This will give the fish the required oxygen they will need as the plants will also use oxygen at night. This will prevent fish gasping at the surface. (see ive done my homework ) I will still run the co2 system at night though as i have read somewhere that turning off the system does more harm than good a it will take a while to get the co2 back up and running as before. I will see if the Hagen system allows me to reduce the amount of co2 at night some way.

Will 25 plants (young not mature) be too much to start with then?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

fair enough, i don't know that much about plants myself but thought i'd best check you knew what you were doign with that combination of equipment!!

i don't think it's too many plants, cycling can be so unpredictable though, you may find if your cycle is excessivley slow that you need to temporarily re-house some plants elsewhere to see if it makes a difference. bit of a 'suck it and see' with that one

 

[ebrcknrdg]

fair enough, i don't know that much about plants myself but thought i'd best check you knew what you were doign with that combination of equipment!!

i don't think it's too many plants, cycling can be so unpredictable though, you may find if your cycle is excessivley slow that you need to temporarily re-house some plants elsewhere to see if it makes a difference. bit of a 'suck it and see' with that one

Ill try and house some in my smaller tank then, just be be on the safe side. Thanx for the advice.

If anyone elSe has any input id greatly appreciate it. I want to get this set up as good as i can!

 

[sinistral]

I'd advocate for including plants early in the process. Plants take up ammonia and nitrates, and will help promote nitrogen removal. In a very densely planted aquarium, particularly with fast-growing species, plants can function as the main ammonia removers.

I had a good link discussing this, but now I can't find it. If I do I will include it later.

I would also recommend either keeping your air pump running or not. Most aeration and gas exchange is provided by surface flow from the filter, so air pumps are attractive IMO but not required. What kind of filter, by the way?

Also, what caused the pH crash?

 

[ebrcknrdg]

I'd advocate for including plants early in the process. Plants take up ammonia and nitrates, and will help promote nitrogen removal. In a very densely planted aquarium, particularly with fast-growing species, plants can function as the main ammonia removers.

I had a good link discussing this, but now I can't find it. If I do I will include it later.

I would also recommend either keeping your air pump running or not. Most aeration and gas exchange is provided by surface flow from the filter, so air pumps are attractive IMO but not required. What kind of filter, by the way?

Also, what caused the pH crash?

Im confused now lol. The link would help in deciding whether to include plants or not.

I will have my CO2 system running in the day and my air pump running at night as it has a built in light wich will allow me to view the fish while the main lights are off.

The filter is the standard one that comes with the Juwel Rio 125. I know that an external filter would be best but i cant afford one at the moment.

What would the PH crash in my smaller tank have to do with setting up this tank? In answer to that question i dont know what caused it as i was on holiday at the time and my tank was being looked after. I did a 50% water change and everything is back to normal now with regular water changes once a week.

 

[rdd1952]

One thing I have noticed is that unless you have mainly low light plants, you don't have enough wattage for your plants to do well. Generally, you need a minimum of 2 watts per gallon. You will have less than 1 wpg. For a planted tank, you almost have to upgrade to power compact lights.

Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of the waterlife sterazin is. From what I can tell, that is a parasiticide and is used or the control of gill and body parasites. Not something you would generally have any need for. Ammo lock is also not needed. Once you complete the fishless cycle, there should never be any ammonia in the tank so you should have a need for it.

I would also second the fact that you don't need the airpump.

Yes i plan to run the air pump at night as it also has a nice green light on which will allow me to view the fish. This will give the fish the required oxygen they will need as the plants will also use oxygen at night. This will prevent fish gasping at the surface. (see ive done my homework ) I will still run the co2 system at night though as i have read somewhere that turning off the system does more harm than good a it will take a while to get the co2 back up and running as before. I will see if the Hagen system allows me to reduce the amount of co2 at night some way.

Will 25 plants (young not mature) be too much to start with then?

It may be a typo on your part but plants use CO2, not oxygen. The reason some people say to run an air pump at night is that plants don't use any (or use very little) at night when the lights are out thus they don't produce oxygen so the CO2 level can rise. And there isn't any way to adjust the CO2 flow at night. I have one and it's a pretty basic system. They don't produce a lot of CO2 so you shouldn't have to run the air at night at least with only one on the tank. I think 1 unit is suposed to be good for about 25 gallons but you can increse the output by increasing the amount of yeast you use. The more yeast, the more and faster the bubbles come but the sooner you have to change the mixture again. I think normally you need to change the mixture in those about every 5 to 7 days. Don't buy their packages though. Just go to the grocery store and buy a box of baking soda and a pack of yeast. It's the same thing that's in the packs.

It really depends on what type plants you have as to whether 25 will be too many or not.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

One thing I have noticed is that unless you have mainly low light plants, you don't have enough wattage for your plants to do well. Generally, you need a minimum of 2 watts per gallon. You will have less than 1 wpg. For a planted tank, you almost have to upgrade to power compact lights.

Also, I'm not sure what the purpose of the waterlife sterazin is. From what I can tell, that is a parasiticide and is used or the control of gill and body parasites. Not something you would generally have any need for. Ammo lock is also not needed. Once you complete the fishless cycle, there should never be any ammonia in the tank so you should have a need for it.

I would also second the fact that you don't need the airpump.

Yes i plan to run the air pump at night as it also has a nice green light on which will allow me to view the fish. This will give the fish the required oxygen they will need as the plants will also use oxygen at night. This will prevent fish gasping at the surface. (see ive done my homework ) I will still run the co2 system at night though as i have read somewhere that turning off the system does more harm than good a it will take a while to get the co2 back up and running as before. I will see if the Hagen system allows me to reduce the amount of co2 at night some way.

Will 25 plants (young not mature) be too much to start with then?

It may be a typo on your part but plants use CO2, not oxygen. The reason some people say to run an air pump at night is that plants don't use any (or use very little) at night when the lights are out thus they don't produce oxygen so the CO2 level can rise. And there isn't any way to adjust the CO2 flow at night. I have one and it's a pretty basic system. They don't produce a lot of CO2 so you shouldn't have to run the air at night at least with only one on the tank. I think 1 unit is suposed to be good for about 25 gallons but you can increse the output by increasing the amount of yeast you use. The more yeast, the more and faster the bubbles come but the sooner you have to change the mixture again. I think normally you need to change the mixture in those about every 5 to 7 days. Don't buy their packages though. Just go to the grocery store and buy a box of baking soda and a pack of yeast. It's the same thing that's in the packs.

It really depends on what type plants you have as to whether 25 will be too many or not.

Yeh i calculated that i dont have enough watts but as ive just purchased them i will go with them for nowand upgrade later. I wont be putting in to many plants for the time being anyway and will use hardy plants while cycling.

I bought the sterazin as my fish do have intestinal worms so i am treating them at the moment so have this in my cupboard for future use.

The ammo lock came with other products i purchased on ebay so i didnt have any choice about getting it but i have it there just in case i suppose!

I know i dont need an airpump but i liked the fact it has a light on for when my main lights are off. Will it do any harm just to run it at night?

I have read on a few sites that;

A. During daylight all plants use carbon dioxide and give off oxygen. This process is
called photosynthesis – it requires light.
B. At night, the opposite is true. Plants use oxygen and give off carbon dioxide. This
process is called respiration.

Therefore, by the plant using up oxygen in the tank at night there is less for the fish, so running an air pump will provide the extra oxygen to stop them gasping at the surface

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Yes plants take in Oxygen at night.

The 5 in 1 test strips aren't too hot...I've tried them and they are too inaccurate to be of much use.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

Yes plants take in Oxygen at night.

The 5 in 1 test strips aren't too hot...I've tried them and they are too inaccurate to be of much use.

Ive had this discussion in another thread and they are back on ebay lol. Thanx though

 

[Dave Spencer]

I`ll help as much as I can from the planted angle.

You only have just over 1WPG which isn`t a great deal of light, but you could have a tank of Java fern, Mosses, Anubias etc.....

Steer clear of 2WPG unless you want to go down the pressurised CO2, fertiliser regime etc. route.

Plant your tank from day one (25 plants isn`t even close to a lot). The plants will take up the N from the Ammonia and deprive your bacteria development to a certain extent, but your plant growth will be minimal, so the bacteria colony should still develop. I run high tech planted tanks where the plant growth is so fast that the tank doesn`t cycle and I can add fish such as Otos and Amano shrimp as soon as I see visible signs of growth on the plants, after a day or three.

You are right about plants taking up O2 at night, but my fish are never gasping at the surface through a lack of O2. If you are using DIY CO2 which is on for 24/7 then by all means use the airstone for peace of mind.

There is a pinned article on DIY CO2 in the planted section of this forum, which gives the best DIY recipe for the Nutrafin cannister.

Dave.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

I`ll help as much as I can from the planted angle.

You only have just over 1WPG which isn`t a great deal of light, but you could have a tank of Java fern, Mosses, Anubias etc.....

Steer clear of 2WPG unless you want to go down the pressurised CO2, fertiliser regime etc. route.

Plant your tank from day one (25 plants isn`t even close to a lot). The plants will take up the N from the Ammonia and deprive your bacteria development to a certain extent, but your plant growth will be minimal, so the bacteria colony should still develop. I run high tech planted tanks where the plant growth is so fast that the tank doesn`t cycle and I can add fish such as Otos and Amano shrimp as soon as I see visible signs of growth on the plants, after a day or three.

You are right about plants taking up O2 at night, but my fish are never gasping at the surface through a lack of O2. If you are using DIY CO2 which is on for 24/7 then by all means use the airstone for peace of mind.

There is a pinned article on DIY CO2 in the planted section of this forum, which gives the best DIY recipe for the Nutrafin cannister.

Dave.

All this info is really boggin me down now I do want a well planted tank eventually but havent got sufficient substrate in there, just fine natural gravel. I did look into it but its quite expensive isnt it and im on a budget. Also i dont understand the EI method as it seems rather complex. I will probably just keep hardy plants and use fertilizer tablets in the gravel. Is this sufficient?

 

[rdd1952]

You can have plants without any fancy substrate. Simple play sand at $3 or $4 for 50 lb will do fine.

 

[ebrcknrdg]

You can have plants without any fancy substrate. Simple play sand at $3 or $4 for 50 lb will do fine.

I edited the above post to say that i have a fine natural gravel. Would you recommend upgrading the lighting a little or getting reflectors or both?