All Our Fish Are Dying One By One?!

[cacoe]

Rather quickly too, about one a day. We started with what looked like... 2x normal gold fish (but not... they are tropical) 2x the same yet white 2x the same but black. We added some neons and then a "fighting fish" (sure you must know what that is).

They are being fed well, the temperature is apparently OK, we have a filter in the water, a little water wheel at the bottom that produces bubbles and your standard grit at the bottom of the tank. Oh and it's lit correctly too. I can't personally see whats going wrong.

One of the neons that died, had a chunk missing from it's jaw.. a bite sized chunk? So far, 1x white has died, 1x black 2xneon and the fighting fish has also died?!!?!?!

WHAT TO DO?!!!

[edit] - my parents switch off all stuff at night time... not sure if thats a bad thing. No light, bubbles filtering but they do keep the heating on. They do that mainly because it's all so loud but I don't know if thats alright to do or not. The filter also creates a lot of vibration....

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well firstly the temp is not ok. i can absolutely guarantee that without even knowing the temp of your tank.

because you have coldwater and tropical fish together. they need to be kept at different temps so first things first your are going to have to address this issue and either re-home one group of fish or get two tanks and keep one tropical and one coldwater.

can you tell us the size of the tank, the stats for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and your maintenance routine

 

[cacoe]

Ok, first off, I'm doing this on behalf of my parents and I instantly think they may not of quite understood that there are different requirements for different tropical fish... although I imagine that they would of asked at the shop they bought them from? Anyway, they assume that the temperature is correct because they bought a thermometer that has a "green zone" and have just made the waters warmth fit in that zone. We don't have any way to measure ph, ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. We also don't have a maintenance routine as such because we've only had the tank and fish for 1 week and less...

Sounds like extra reading is defiantly required...

They bought the tank and the fish the next day, it seemed a rather hasty thing to do, I kinda though they should of read something on the topic first..

 

[Miss Wiggle]

green zone for tropicals or for coldwater fish? you see the problem immediately.

i can tell you for sure what's killed the fish if they added fish straight away. the tank isn't cycled. if you have a read through this topic it should explain what's happening. maybe print it off to give to your parents as well so they can understand too. it also tells you what to do now.

let us know if you've any questions. honestly the best advice i could give is take the fish back to the shop and do some research, don't mean to sound harsh but taking on a responsibility for another animals life should not be undertaken lightly.

lesson no 1 of fishkeeping. do not trust the fish shop. they're in it to make money and the amount of shoddy advice handed out is astounding. if it was cats or dogs it wouldn't be allowed to happen but the rspca and the government won't step in when it comes to fish. so we just do the best we can to edducate people through forums like this. remember the fish store is paid to be there and paid by you for your advice. we give advice in our own time and for free.... you choose who you want to trust

 

[dwarfgourami]

Just to add to miss Wiggle's information: if your parents keep switching off the filter at night, the tank won't have a chance to cycle. The filter needs to be on at all times, otherwise the problem with dying fish will continue.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Just to add to miss Wiggle's information: if your parents keep switching off the filter at night, the tank won't have a chance to cycle. The filter needs to be on at all times, otherwise the problem with dying fish will continue.

yeah absolutely, didn't spot that edit!

 

[cacoe]

Sorry, my mistake, they switch off everything except for the filter. They reckon to of done all the tests on the water and all was well. The green zone on the thermometer is for tropical fish. Is it perhaps just a fact that a number of young fish die upon purchase even if all conditions are right? (though, I'm not confident that they are, just throwing that idea out there)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Sorry, my mistake, they switch off everything except for the filter. They reckon to of done all the tests on the water and all was well. The green zone on the thermometer is for tropical fish. Is it perhaps just a fact that a number of young fish die upon purchase even if all conditions are right? (though, I'm not confident that they are, just throwing that idea out there)

can you ask what the results were for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. if they don't have them anymore then can they test again and get the results. also what make of test kit are they using.

did they use anything like mature filter media to set the filter up or was it all straight from the box?

have you read and understood the topic i linked you too, you understand how setting the tank up without any mature media nad adding fish straight away will cause problems. I'm sorry to be blunt but unless they used mature media this is what's happening, this is what's killing the fish and any water tests will not be reading completely fine at the moment. sorry if this sounds harsh i'm trying not to be, but i see this situation about 10 times a day on this forum.

yes sometimes you will just loose the odd fish when you put them into a new tank. not this many though.

 

[cacoe]

OK seems like they didn't do or even know about the cycling process. Looks like we're doing the "with fish" cycling process as of now unfortunately. You don't have any information on this, on your cycling page because you obviously don't want to promote people killing their fish... but they've been in there over a week now, what are the chances of the water being more inhabitable at this point? If no more die, is it likely that the process has naturally happened now? (I don't like the fact that the fish died though!)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the water will not be better after just one week, more likely worse as the ammonia has built up your looking at several weeks, fairly likely a month maybe even 2/3 before it's finished cycling. and it's pretty certain you will loose more fish in this time if you just leave things as they are.

as you need to re-home some fish anyway to make the tank either tropical or coldwater i'd recommend you actually take all the fish back and then do a fishless cycle.

if you can't presuade your parents to do this then you should be doing 20% water changes every day and testing the water every day like i said in the first topic i linked you too.

can you tell us how big the tank is? do you think you would want to keep the coldwater fish (goldfish and other colour versions that look the same) or the tropicals (neons, fighter fish) as you need to get them separated and put in appropriate tanks pretty soon, the higher heat will be causing damage to the goldfish. it's unlikely it will kill them in itself but being kept in the wrong temp will weaken they're immune system making them less likely to be able to fight disease or cope with poor water conditions and could cause long term damage

edit - but don't beat yourself up too much about the fish dying, yeah it's bad but your in the right place, asking the right questions and will shortly be doing the right thing. in my book that alone makes you potentially a great fishkeeper so just keep reading and learning and we'll help you all we can to get through this and get a great tank

 

[cacoe]

Oh, they're all defiantly tropical fish, I just referred to them looking like goldfish because of my lack of knowledge of fish they are certainly not cold water goldfish. The tank holds about 20 litres, its fairly small really but they didn't plan to have masses of fish, I think the quantity they had when all fish were still alive was defiantly reasonable, I'm not an expert (obviously!) but thats just going by common sense.

I'll look into that 20% cycle because theres not much chance of them taking the fish back. I'll be sure to report back on how things go

Thanks very much for your assistance, it is very appreciated,

Mark.

 

[cacoe]

Oh and sorry for not using the "emergency form", I only just came across that

 

[Miss Wiggle]

aaah ok, sorry i misunderstood. ignore everythign i said about temps then i thought you meant actual goldfish.

20l is pretty small to give you an idea of stocking you should have 1" of fish for every us gallon of water. your tank holds 5 us gallons. so 5" of fish is the most you can have in there. something like 5 neons or the equivalent. fish tanks should actually hold a lot less fish than you might think.

definately let us know how you get on and if you have any more questions. do water changes every day and hopefully you'll get the fish through it relativley unscathed but you should prepare yourself and your parents for the possibility of more losses.

the other thing you can do is try and get some mature media. if you know anyone else with a fish tank ask them for some sponge from they're filter. you can even ask the lfs some of them will do it for you. if not then have a look through the pinned topic in the beginners forum about media donations and have a look if there's anyone local to you who can give you some media, this should speed up the cycle and make things much easier and hopefully prevent any more losses.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Oh and sorry for not using the "emergency form", I only just came across that

see i just don't known if i can forgive you for that

 

[cacoe]

Well, I've been trying to get them to read the cycle information and I'm sure they will but in the mean time, they're coming up with crazy "what if we do this" ideas without thinking anything through rationally

Like we have a huge tub on the garden that collects rain water and my dad is all like "hmmm... that must have loads of bacteria in it and it doesn't get treated so it doesn't have stuff added to it!" and I'm thinking.... you don't know that, theres all sorts of stuff in rain water. I'm having a hard time convincing them to get an ammonia metre too (is it just a ph metre?)...

They said, if that doesn't work, we'll just leave them and hope for the best. I thinking... WAH?!

Read the damn cycle information PLEASE!

edit- to put this into even better context, when my dad got the little bubble creating water wheel, I told him it was taking up too much space, the bubbles we right in the centre of the tank and the fish didnt have much room around them to swim, his reply was "don't worry, they live better with more surface area, which the bubbles create!". I'm there correcting him saying they don't live on the surface in 2d, they need more /volume/ and he cut in saying he knew better... argh.