All my fish are dying

[k2snowboards88]

I just got into the hobby of fishkeeping about 2 and a half weeks ago. I started out with a 55 gallon tank and 2 bala sharks and an eel. Well the i was changing about 25% of the water everyday. Then my bala sharks started getting some white spots on them and they eventually swelled up and died. The eel never got sick. I waited 4 days(still changing the water every day) and i bought 4 tiger barbs and 2 columbian sharks and a red fin shark(all very small). The columbian sharks started to have white spots, so i got some ich medication. They both died after 2 days so i stopped treating. A day later i started to notice my fish acting strangely. The red fin shark would attack everything in sight, and he started to turn a little paler and got black streaks on some of his fins. The Tiger barbs were starting to develope black spots and were rubbing themselves against rocks and plants. I started treating for ich again, and i'm not sure if its helping at all. They still all act very strangely and the black spots are still on the tiger barbs and my fish are still acting funny. They all breath quickly too, but theres no nitrite in the water. I dont' know what to do anymore. NOthing seems to help. Please help me before i lose all of them.

 

[k2snowboards88]

I forgot to mention one thing. Once i started to notice my tiger barbs getting sick, they've been acting very strangely. 2 of them often look like they're trying to bite each others mouths and they spin around in cirles right next to each other. What is this?

 

[jflowers]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

No Nitrite is good, but what about amonia? thats the killer. If the tank has just been running for two and a half weeks then it wont be cycled properly, sorry if you know this already but if not there are pinned topics to read in the newbie section. Also are you declorinating your water during your changes? forgot to look where you are from, but round here they add all sorts to the water. I use tetra aquasafe for my water. I am sure others will add there advice too and good luck, its not nice to start out with a bad experience.

Jon

 

[k2snowboards88]

Well the problem is that with the medication i'm only able to keep the ammonia below .5(where it is before the water change). After the change its below 0 and .25. I don't know what to do though. I used cyle (cultured bacteria in a bottle) originally and my tank cycled in about a week. But since the last time i've started using medication, its spiked as i said early. Now i'm kind of painted into a corner where if i stop the medication i can probably cycle the tank, but they'll all catch the disease. Or i can keep using the medication and they can all die of amonia poisoning. I think i'm gonna go out to the store and buy Ammonia-Lock. Its supposed to convert amonia into a form that wont harm the fish and won't be nitrified. But still i'm worried. How long should i have to keep using this medication.

And what are the black spots on my barbs. I'm treating them for ich because thats what i think they have. I woudln't have even treated them, except they were all getting sick with very good amonia and nitrite/nitrate levels.

edit: i am using aquasafe with all my water changes

 

[jflowers]

Have a look at Wolf's new site...

http/www.fishdiseases.0catch.com/illnesses/Page_1x.html

Believe black spot is there not sure if thats your prob though.

Jon

[edit] Amonia lock is good, though it wont bring your amonia readings down, it just turns it to a harmless version of amonia.

 

[appleblossom]

Hi k2snowboards88,

a couple of questions about the problems you have been doing so far,

you say you got into the hobby about 2 and a half weeks ago, does this mean the tank was first set up at that time?

Do you know anything about the nitrogen cycle and what is referred to as 'cycling' a tank?
If so, was this dont before you added any fish, or before you added the eel and bala sharks?

Could you take some tank water to your lfs and get them to test for nitrIte, nitrAte and ammonia?


Also what size is your tank?

hopefully we can help you get to the bottom of all this with a bit more info

 

[k2snowboards88]

I do know what cylcling is, i just don't have any experience with it.i can test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, hardness, ph and alkalyne with test kits i bought from the lps.

I waited 2 days after setting up my tank before adding fish. The store told me it would be fine as long as i used cycle, which introduces large quantities of nitrifying bacteria and the bacteria that turns nitrite into nitrate. I was doing a 25% percent water change every other day and ammonia was never above .25ppm. Nitrite was always 0. It was all going fine til i medicated my tank, wich killed off the beginnings of my cycle.

 

[appleblossom]

Unfortunately 'cycle' contains dead bacteria, so although it contains the bacteria you need, it is almost useless as the bacteria you are adding are already dead, and no chance of reincarnation.... you still need to go through the cycling process.

if you want to cycle with fish, waiting 2 days before adding fish is fine, but I would have gone with something hardy like danios or platies, even then, they have a risk of dying during the process.

The water chages you were doing, whilst keeping the levels down to stress your fish less, it was also prolonging the cycling process. With your ammonia never going above 0.25ppm, i doubt there was ever enough to get the cycle started. A nitrite reading of 0 backs this theory up.

If I was in your situation, I would return all of the fish you currently have, I dont know if any will survive

I would then buy (depending on your tank size, you didnt say) a couple of zebra danios (nice active fish) or platies (colourful, peaceful and breed a lot!). I would put those in the tank in new, clean, unmedicated water and wait.

Test every few days, you should go through a process along the lines of:

- no nitrite, no ammonia, no nitrate
- no nitrite, some ammonia, no nitrate
- no nitrite, lots of ammonia, no nitrate
- some nitrite, lots of ammonia, no nitrate
- lots of nitrite, lots of ammonia, no nitrate
- lots of nitrite, less ammonia, no nitrate
- less nitrite, no ammonia, some nitrate
- no nitrite, no ammonia, more nitrate

the tank is now cycled!

I personally do not do water changes when cycling with hardy fish. It is much more stressful for the fish, but it gets the cycle over with faster. Just my way of doing things though, the choice is yours.

 

[k2snowboards88]

well i know cycle helped, because after i added it, the amonia levels stopped climbing immediately. I also know that it was starting to cycle a little bit because there is some nitrate in the tank(unless tap water contains nitrate). If they all die, i do want to start with some new hardy fish. but i dont know of any hardy fish that i want to have. How do bala sharks do? i know they died the first time, but i kind of think they were allready sick when i bought them.


btw i have a 55 gallon tank.

 

[appleblossom]

tap water does contain nitrate. It may help for you to test your tap water just to know what's going in with every water change. The 'no nitrate' i wrote about in my previous post would be your results using ro water. with tap water, it would be at the level it is coming out of the tap until the end of the cycling process.

Personally I would only use danios, platies or guppies to cycle with. You could try other fish, but again there is the possibility that they wont survive. I added bala sharks to a newly cycled tank but not during the cycle. Some fish can only be added after the tank has had stable water for 6 months.

Would you be able to return your fish to the store where you bought them in exchange for store credit rather than just waiting to see if they all die?

Also are you aware that bala sharks get to be 14"long and about 5" high?

 

[Nethius]

yes take appleblossoms advice. hope all the losses dont discourage you from fish keeping.

would also like to note that columbian sharks/catfish (Arius seemani) are a brackish water fish, that requires full marine when adult.

as for the black dots, i would not think it's ich, as ich is usually white dots... could be flukes? i know wild caught fish will often be covered in little black bumps, not sure exactly what they are, but am told they would just run their course, and it's not deadly

 

[Fawke]

would also like to note that columbian sharks/catfish (Arius seemani) are a brackish water fish, that requires full marine when adult.

I thought that Arius Seemani/Jordani only required brackish water when adult..
As juveniles they are mainly freshwater but when adult/older they move into estuaries which are brackish.... i never knew they needed a full marine setup when adults

Dang....

I had exactly the same problem when i started fish keeping. I however (somehow) managed to get 2 Gouramis, 1 Pictus Catfish and 1 Plec through the cycle, keeping up the daily water changes....
If i had hardier fish would of left the water changes as appleblossom suggested....

However, i would not recommend putting these fish through the cycle because even if you should get them through it, their immune systems will be damaged and weakened and will probably have more problems later on - i am finding this with my Gourami's 6 months down the line....

I also used cycle but as appleblossom also stated, it's dead, and was as good as useless to me.
The problems with using Ammonia removing/nutrifying agents is that the b.bacteria wil never get established without initial ammonia. This could end up costing you a fortune in ammonia removing products and i have heard that alot of them alter water chemistry and can also stress the fish considerably.....

Hope my experiences have helped a little....
I would take appleblossoms advice also.....

Good luck

 

[k2snowboards88]

Thansk for all your help guys.

apple: No i can't return them for store credit. I really don't know what to do with them at this point. Its getting really frustrating, and i'm basically jsut waiting for them to die. I'm gonna feel really bad when my eel dies though. He seemed like he was really smart. Alot smarter than most other non-mammal pets. So right now i really don't have any options and i don't know what to do at all.

Also, the ammonia product i use says it just converts the ammonia to another form, but it will still be removed by the bio-filter. Wouldn't a cyle still start while using this product? Or maybe its a different type of bacteria that would process the alterred amonia. Do you know the answer to this?\

thanks guys

 

[k2snowboards88]

As for the bala sharks getting to be 14 inches long, i've heard that most don't get much over 7" in captivity, and they grow very slowly after 7 inches if they do get bigger. If they do get to be really large, it will be years down the road and i'll gladly buy them a new tank.(i'm buying them at about 2.5" long)


The black spots on my barbs weren't there when i bought them. They apeard around the same time my catfish died of ich.


The place that i bought the catfish from told me they were freshwater. I've learned on my own since then that that isn't true for their adulthood. I won't be buying them again.

 

[k2snowboards88]

One more question. How long after adding dechlorinator to water does it take for the water to be dechlorinated and how long should i wait before adding it to the tank?