ADF sudden death. Any suggestions to prevent in future?

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JoshOfMichigan

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Hi! Please excuse the tome below, but I figure too much information beats too little.

I purchased three ADFs in May for my 29 gallon planted tropical community tank: two males, one female. At first, they seemed quite content - singing, amplexus, good appetites. About a month in, one of the males developed a fungal disease. I put him in a quarantine tank with antibiotics, but he didn't make it (survived about two days).
I ordered chytrid tests for the other two, and both came back negative. The female is overweight, but the male seemed to be a healthy weight. So I figured everything was good.
A couple days ago, the remaining male ate an entire shrimp pellet (after a few tries - I wasn't able to gently take it away from him). I decided to keep an eye on him, and he was behaving normally and looking healthy through this morning. I did trim back a lot of the water wisteria yesterday because it had gotten very overgrown. But, when I came downstairs in the afternoon for the twice-weekly 10-15% water change, he was floating dead and bloated at the top of the tank.
I took the body to the lfs, and the employee said she found no signs of infection, nor any water quality problems other than the expected chloramine "ammonia" from the first few hours after any water change (I add Prime to neutralize it until the BB get ahold of it). My own test had measured 0 ppm right before that. Nitrites 0, nitrates 5 ppm. DGH 7, pH 6.6 (though the lfs oddly got multiple readings). KH two readings: 2-3 and 7. I add a pinch of alkaline buffer to water changes to support the pH and kH.
After confirming that she thought the issue was diet leading to an intestinal blockage and not the tank itself, and showing her pictures of the female to rule out any obvious illness I might be unaware of, I purchased a female and a male replacement (she wanted to be extra cautious about not having an excess of males, though I have no reason to believe that's relevant in this species). She recommended I occasionally feed them frozen/thawed brine shrimp and prevent them from eating any leftover fish flakes (not quite sure how; and some sites say flakes aren't harmful for them).
My current staple for them is ZooMed Aquatic Frog pellets, but of course they also eat whatever else falls to the bottom from tankmates' food.
The other inhabitants of the tank are a(n almost always, and always with the frogs) peaceful male betta, whom I feed Dr. Bassleer garlic pellets; nine cardinal tetras, which I feed Tetra fish flakes, eight Cory habrosus, which I feed Hikari sinking wafers and catfish pellets, two amano shrimp, which I feed ZooMed shrimp pellets, six assassin snails, which eat pond snails, and a couple dozen uninvited pond snails, which eat algae and leftovers.
I give the tank frozen-thawed bloodworms once a week as a treat, as well as pre-soaked freeze-dried brine shrimp once a week. The filter is a sponge-baffled Tetra Whisper 30 at half-flow to keep current low while still agitating the surface. The substrate is aquarium pebbles with a bowl of coarse sand (almost fine gravel) and some indian almond leaves to provide everyone a choice of surfaces. I keep the tank at 78 F, except for one week after I lost the first male at 80 F to hopefully kill any infectious fungus. I didn't want to keep the cories that warm any longer.
The two new frogs are active and already eating - including pond snail eggs, thankfully), the female is still quite chonky but seems otherwise healthy (I attached a picture below), but all the fora and care guides give contradictory advice on food, substrate, even acceptable tank height, and I very much don't want to lose anymore of them. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Josh
 

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Don't use anti-biotics unless the animal has a known bacterial infection that has not responded to normal treatments. Improper use and mis-use of anti-biotics has lead to drug resistant bacteria that kill people, animals, birds, fish and reptiles.

Chytrid fungus is a fungus and not a bacteria. Anti-biotics do nothing to fungus, viruses, protozoa or anything except bacteria.

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Never add new organisms to an aquarium if you have just lost one. If there is a disease in the tank it can infect the new inhabitants. If the new fish/ frogs have a disease, it will add to the stress on the sick animals in the tank.

If you lose a fish or frog in an aquarium, do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes will dilute any disease organisms in the water and help give the remaining inhabitants the best chance of recovering.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Wipe the inside of the tank to remove any biofilm on the glass.

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If a frog eats a pellet and it can swallow it completely, just let it digest the food. If you grab the frog and try to manhandle it, you can injure it.

Frogs can eat all sorts of foods but should have a variety of frozen (but defrosted) foods.

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Heat doesn't normally affect things like fungus and bacteria. If you get the water hot enough to kill fungus, you will probably kill the frog too.
 
Thanks. I'll be careful to keep the gravel vacuumed and step up water changes. I actually just wiped down the tank walls today, along with those.

I'm glad to know the pellet wasn't likely the problem, as they've been recommended to me for the shrimp (I am breaking them into smaller pieces, though, now).

The medicine I used was tri-sulfa, at the lfs's recommendation. So not a penicillin-type antibiotic of resistance concerns. I was speaking loosely. That said, I was completely relying on the store's claim that it's safe for frogs.

I've seen multiple other sites say that heat kills fungal infections in frogs. They were talking like 86, which would have been way too high for comfort, especially in animals showing no symptoms. I figured 80 might weaken any subclinical infections and boost immune function by increasing metabolism. I've also read an experienced fishkeeper note that keeping animals near the top of their optimal temp. range reduced illness issues.

The filter intake has been wire-brush cleaned in the last two weeks; I *think* I've rinsed the cartridge in tank water in that time frame; I haven't changed the sponge or cartridge, though, for fear of destroying my cycle.

As I said, the recent death doesn't seem to have the same hallmarks of infection that the first one did. This one went from at least apparently healthy to gone in no more than five hours. Are there any common adf infections that do that?
 
PS. I know for almost certain that it *wasn't* chytrid that killed the first one, since the others would have tested positive if it were - crazy contagious, after all. What *would* you recommend as a general anti-fungal medicine? The same lamisil bath I've seen recommended for chytrid?
 
There is no treatment for chytrid fungus. Anything that kills the fungus also kills the frog.

Triple sulpha is about the only safe medication for amphibians but it doesn't work as well nowadays due to having been mis-used over the last 40 years. It still works on some things but it's becoming less effective as time goes by.
 
Well, that's certainly depressing. At least I used the right med for the first poor little guy - gave him the best chance I knew how.
 

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