Adding Rocks To Aquarium And Check Up

[Naringlo]

Hello! I was wondering if there was a safe way to add outside rocks (e.g. from he beach because I live near lots of beaches or the garden etc). I know you can't just pick them up and put them in your tank but is there a way like wash it or/and put it in the oven for an hour to kill bacteria and so?

Also, I restarted my tank and added filter start to get the "good" bacteria growing. I have waited about 2-3 weeks while doing weekly water changes with the odd one in between. Bought a test kit and it arrived today and ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were 0ppm and 0. pH is neutral. Is it now okay to start adding fish? Just a few every 1-2 weeks?

And if you are adding shawling fish, let's say 'Black Phantom Tetras', how would you add these if you wanted around 6 of them? Can the water handle that since they are small.

My tank is 120l freshwater but this also includes a 33l I also restarted though I don't know what to put in that yet.

Thanks!


EDIT: There has been 1 betta in each tank after 1 week of the tank being restarted because I didn't have a choice.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Unfortunately, no it is not "ok" to start adding fish. First, the filter start stuff is like snake oil in the fish business, if you ask me. Second, even if it did work, without an ammonia source to feed the bacteria, they would die off anyway. If you are going to add fish you will be in a complete fish-in cycle, as if you had used nothing prior. Unfortunately, the water changes have done nothing but give you practice at that very important maintenance routine.

You would want to get an ammonia source (Boots in the UK I believe is a supplier of ammonia with only water and ammonium hydroxide - no perfumes or surfactants) and dose that to the tank and start a proper fishless cycle. See my sig for links to properly run fishless and fish-in cycles.


In theory you could do a fish-in cycle with the phantoms as you said, but be prepared for daily large water changes for a considerable amount of time before the filter starts to take over the removal of the ammonia. Starting with all 6 at once would be a bit heavy stock for that size tank, if you ask me. I'd wait and start with less and then boost the number once the filter is cycled for that bioload. But, if I were you, I would do a fishless cycle, since you haven't put ANY fish in yet.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with philly, unfortunately you haven't done anything at all to cycle your new aquarium yet and that's the most important task by far. A lot of what our beginner forum is all about is helping newcomers learn about the fishless cycling process and using that first month or so to learn all about cycling and biofilters, which also learning about tank maintenance and stocking plans. It's a wonderful triple start in the hobby and gives you many more lasting skills than simply getting your first batch of fish going.

As mentioned, fishless cycling starts with a simple household ammonia source and Boots in the UK has settled in to being a reliable one we can recommend. It sounds like you already have a liquid-reagent based test kit. A couple of syringes is helpful, one for ammonia and the other for putting your tank test water into the test tubes easily. Our main fishless cycling article is by RDD up in the Beginners Resource Center. Lots of our members can help you as you go along through the stages of cycling and finally reach your "qualification week."

Fish are "the icing on the cake" after all the cycing and other preparations are made. You are correct that six is a very common minimum number of shoaling fish needed to keep these species types from having "low number stress." But it is not necessarily essential to introduce your entire shoal at once. The important thing is to arrive at good shoaling numbers as soon as you can and just not to let it go on for long periods with the number of fish being too low.

Unfortunately you need to be quite careful about rocks and other objects that come from beaches and other saltwater environments. You don't want pockets of chemicals altering your freshwater environment. I tried to find a link to some of our good TFF rock articles from way back but I failed. A lot of rock types are good but some are bad and you have to figure that out. I'd not do salt source things until you are sure.

Anyway, hope this helps a little and good luck on your journey!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Naringlo]

Actually I failed to mention I have a male betta in the 120l tank after 1 week that I rescued from my last stock. And a female betta in the 33l since I haven't been able to get back to the local fish shop for a while. I kept them in a small container but it got messy so I didn't now what to do. I feed them a flake once a week but I'm unsure what to do with them but would this start a fish in cycle?

I did read a fair bit into a fish-less cycle but went to my local fish shop and asked how to get my tank started and they said add some Filter start and sold me that. It's got "Stability" at the top and is made by SeaChem I think. So does this mean whatever that bottle of Stability contained has died?

Anyway, reading ealgesaquarium's fish-less cycle link, am I right in thinking that when you add ammonia and keep doing that, the bacteria will form itself to rid off the ammonia and nitrite?

Also, after reading the other link on fish in cycling, does this mean since one betta fish is in the tank the fish would have produced waste, creating ammonia therefore starting the cycle?

I also want to add that i did have a plant that I had from before and it started to die so it may of released whatever it had inside (I'm not too sure about the role live plants take in an aquarium).

Sorry for not adding any of that but I finally understand what a fish-less cycle is.

Thanks!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No worries.

Yes, having the betta in the tank is starting a fish-in cycle. 1 betta in 120L won't produce much waste, especially with such a small amount of food. SO, you really are starting very close to the beginning. I can't say that the stuff in Stability is dead, because I'm not sure it was ever alive! Just kidding. There is a lot of questions about these types of products. Some believe strongly in them, others don't. LFS are among those that believe strongly in them because it means a sale! Cha-ching. Ultimately though, even if it did have something in it that did work, it wouldn't be able to survive without a source of ammonia. The betta is not providing much, so there would be little to no carry over from that. (Again, sorry for that.)


To answer your other question about the bacteria's role: yes, one group of bacteria "feed" off the ammonia in the water to form nitrite. Another group eventually comes along that feeds on the nitrite to form nitrate. The nitrate stays in your tank until either a plant takes it up to use for its growth or it is removed via a water change.

One betta would be starting the cycle, but again so little waste that it won't produce much ammonia (which means it can remain healthy) but won't produce much in the way of a working biofilter. When stocking up, the general rule of thumb is to not increase the stock by more than 50% of your current level at any one time, because the bacteria won't be able to reproduce fast enough to keep up with it. Having only one betta in each tank means that you'll have some bacteria going in both, but not much. So, going with a group of fish in that case will be a drastic increase to the bioload and will result in ammonia spikes. You'd be better off keeping them both in the smaller tank (with it partitioned in case they don't get along) and performing a proper fishless cycle on the larger tank. Once you have a working filter for the larger tank, you can borrow media from it to seed new filters as needed. What are your plans for the betta long-term?



Plants - this could take a while, so I will try to keep it brief and as simple as possible. Plants take CO2 out of the water and give back oxygen, which is good for the fish. Plants also can take up nitrogen in either the form of ammonia or nitrate. Either way is also good for the fish. Ammonia is highly toxic to the fish, so taking it up can be very beneficial as it removes a toxin. Nitrate is also bad, but not nearly as bad. Some fish are very sensitive to nitrates though, like discus and require extremely low nitrates and soft water. These are almost exclusively seen in heavily planted tanks. The down side to plants is that if the plants start to die, they can release the nitrogen back into the water in the form of ammonia as it decays. So, healthy plants are very good for fish, but dying plants are bad.

 

[Naringlo]

Since I don't know when I can go to fish shop because I don't live near it, I think I'll put the betta in with the smaller tank because I know they get along and do a fish in cycle unfortunately but I'll watch the ammonia level. Wold SeaChem's 'Prime' be worth buying or something that does a similar job? It says it removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. And detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. And provides slimecoat.

As for the 120l, I think I will go to Boots in my town and see if I can acquire some Ammonia.

Just to be on the safe side, can you recommend any other option if I can't get it in Boots that you may know of? Something to do with the fish in cycle tank.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Prime is excellent stuff. It is my #1 choice for dechlorinator for all the reasons you stated, plus it is super concentrated, so a little goes a LONG way. If you haven't had much in the way of ammonia in the smaller tank with the one betta, you shouldn't have to do many water changes to get that tank fully operational for both of them. I wouldn't add any more to that tank though for at least a month, if at all.


Then, go forward with the fish-less cycle on the big tank. This will take some time, possibly two months, but it will be far less stressful for you. It will try your patience at times, but it is well worth the effort. You will never have to sit at work and worry about an ammonia spike and whether or not you will get home in time to do a water change. Or have to worry how much being exposed to the ammonia will shorten the life of your fish, etc. And as waterdrop pointed out, there is a lot to learn and the cycling time is the perfect time to research all sorts of things about your fish.


Being from the US I don't know anything about Boots. All I know is that the folks from the UK recommend it, so I passed that information along. Personally, I used the stuff from Ace Hardware here in the US. Sorry. The key is that the only ingredients should be water and ammonium hydroxide. If it says ANYTHING else, it isn't the stuff you want. I believe the stuff from Boots is 9.5% ammonium hydroxide, but I can't be sure.



I'd wait to put anything else into the smaller tank until you see how well things are going in the larger tank. If you can cycle that one quickly, just wait and borrow some media from that one once it has been established for a few months and you won't have to worry about fish-in cycling. It would be a "clone" of the bigger tanks filter and you'd be fine to add a commiserate portion of fish to that tank as you have in the big tank. (Say you had 20 fish in the big tank and took 25% of the media, you could add 5 similar sized fish to the other tank without much worry of ammonia or nitrite spikes.)

 

[Naringlo]

I thought you said I would would be better putting the betta from the big tank into the small tank? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, it's 4:38AM I don't plan on buying any more fish for a while.

And what is "media"? Is that the filter sponge?

Also, I looked at a diagram of the ammonia cycle and noticed uneaten fish food flakes produce ammonia. Is it possible since my cycle has started slightly, to add food to an empty tank and just remove it after a period of time?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I meant, don't add any more fish, besides the betta to the small tank.


Yes, fish food does add ammonia, the only issue with using fish food instead of the liquid ammonia is that you really don't know how much ammonia you are processing. It will work to tick the bacteria you currently have over until you can get the ammonia though. So, I would add it, as it is a good short term solution, but it won't help as much long term. Long term, you want to ensure that you know how much ammonia is being processed by your tank. Fish food won't help with that very much.