A Month Into My 1st Fishless Cycle...

[Miss Wiggle]

if you're not sure what you want the best thing to do is go to your lfs's (leave the wallet at home!) and write a list of all the fish you like, come back here and post it up and we'll try to devise a sensible stock list for you from that list.

choosing fish is very individual so it's nigh on impossible to choose for other people.

 

[waterdrop]

I would start to try to ease your gf out of the idea of black moors (also seen spelled as black moore, but I think moor is it) as we've frequently read here on TFF that goldfish should be alloted 20G for the first goldfish and 10 more gallons for each additional fish. Your whole tank would need to be dedicated to one black moor and it would chew up any plants.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[MattM1124]

I would start to try to ease your gf out of the idea of black moors (also seen spelled as black moore, but I think moor is it) as we've frequently read here on TFF that goldfish should be alloted 20G for the first goldfish and 10 more gallons for each additional fish. Your whole tank would need to be dedicated to one black moor and it would chew up any plants.

~~waterdrop~~

Well, I added the ammonia in last night around 7pm and when I got up this morning and tested the Ammonia and Nitrite were both at 0!! So I'm gonna do this for a couple more days right? That way I have time to go look at the fish I want and everything. Then right after doing the big water change I should add the fish that same day right??

Ya, i really didn't want the goldfish so I can just give her your resons lol

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, if you tested by 7am then that would count as having dropped them in 12 hours. You really should watch the filter be able to perform these drops from 5ppm ammonia to zero ammonia and zero nitrite within 12 hours each day for a week. If you find you know what your first batch of fish will be and if the filter has qualified for several days in a row then I'd say just go ahead. Yes you want to add fish during the same day after you do the big water change and stop adding ammonia. The bacteria will begin a little bit of die-off after a day without ammonia.. its really better not to go overnight.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[MattM1124]

Yes, if you tested by 7am then that would count as having dropped them in 12 hours. You really should watch the filter be able to perform these drops from 5ppm ammonia to zero ammonia and zero nitrite within 12 hours each day for a week. If you find you know what your first batch of fish will be and if the filter has qualified for several days in a row then I'd say just go ahead. Yes you want to add fish during the same day after you do the big water change and stop adding ammonia. The bacteria will begin a little bit of die-off after a day without ammonia.. its really better not to go overnight.

~~waterdrop~~

Ok, well maybe I tested it at like noon when I got up I haven't had to get early for awhile so I've been sleeping in. lol Would it be ok if tonight I add the 5ppm ammonia in at like midnight even if I've been adding it in around 7-8pm every night? Shouldn't throw it off right?

 

[waterdrop]

yea, no prob, just figure out a 12 hour that works for you and do it

 

[MattM1124]

yea, no prob, just figure out a 12 hour that works for you and do it

Ok, I tested my water today a little before the 12 hour mark and the ammonia and nitrite were at 0!! I'm gonna do this for a week just to make sure though!

Should I be doing some water changes during this or is it ok to just leave all the water in there and then just do the 90% water change after this week?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, glad to see some sunlight got through those pittsburgh gray skys and woke you up there Matt

Doesn't sound like you need any water changes. Just check out the LFS and decide what you're bringing home for after the big water change and don't forget to -not- put ammonia back in

~~waterdrop~~
ps. wish I could have a pointy ice cream cone from Isleys...

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah good plan to keep it up for a week, just gives you an extra cushion of stability this way. nope no need for water changes as you go along, just keep it up until the weekend then on the day that you plan tog et fish do a 90% water change and go out shopping for fish, water should be up to temp and ready to go by the time you get home.

so what fish plans do you have?

 

[MattM1124]

I actually still have to get to the fish store! I plan on doing that very soon though! Today when I tested my water my ph had dropped to around 6.4. Should I just use that ph up stuff or do a little water change to get the ph back to around 7.6-8? If I should do the water change to get it back up, how much should I take out and add back in?

Waterdrop, I've actually never been to Isleys sad to say lol.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

do water changes for now, if pH keeps dropping then you'll need to buffer it, don't use pH adjusting products, theres a link in my sig for adjusting pH which will explain more.

start with a 50% water change, monitor the pH and stick the results up here. do you have a KH test kit?

 

[MattM1124]

do water changes for now, if pH keeps dropping then you'll need to buffer it, don't use pH adjusting products, theres a link in my sig for adjusting pH which will explain more.

start with a 50% water change, monitor the pH and stick the results up here. do you have a KH test kit?

Thanks for the answer! What's so bad about using ph adjusting products though? I actually don't have a KH test kit but I guess I'll get one lol.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

you know there's some questions which sound simple enough but have a very long complicated answer, well that's one of them!! ha ha

there's more on this in the topic linked however the basics are that having a pH that is stable is much more important than it being a specific number, yes some fish have particular requirements but for most trops so long as it's within a reasonable range then it'll be much better for it to be stable and stay where it is than try and tinker it and for it to swing from one extreme to another.

the 'natural' pH of the water is determined largely by the KH (carbonate hardness) of the water. If you've a low KH then your pH will keep falling, if you've a high KH then your pH will be quite high and hold fairly steady there. The pH adjusting products largely work on adjusting the pH not the KH which means it's only a temporary effect, after a few days the KH takes hold and adjusts the pH back to where it wants to be, this means the pH swings which is not what we want!

Adjusting the KH is tricky and very very easy to get wrong and then things can quickly go to pan!

So when we talk about adjusting the pH there's really a decision to be made before we start debating methods, firstly we should ask is 'do we really want to start mucking around with this, is it worth it'.

The process of nitrification (the cycling process) drives the pH down naturally, this will stabilise once the fishless cycle is done. so when people have problems with falling pH particularly when fishless cycling we usually say to just do water changes to stabilise it but to get a test kit for KH so we can assess if there is going to be a long term pH problem that needs tinkering with or if it'll just stabilise once the cycle is done.

so.... clear as mud?!

 

[MattM1124]

you know there's some questions which sound simple enough but have a very long complicated answer, well that's one of them!! ha ha

there's more on this in the topic linked however the basics are that having a pH that is stable is much more important than it being a specific number, yes some fish have particular requirements but for most trops so long as it's within a reasonable range then it'll be much better for it to be stable and stay where it is than try and tinker it and for it to swing from one extreme to another.

the 'natural' pH of the water is determined largely by the KH (carbonate hardness) of the water. If you've a low KH then your pH will keep falling, if you've a high KH then your pH will be quite high and hold fairly steady there. The pH adjusting products largely work on adjusting the pH not the KH which means it's only a temporary effect, after a few days the KH takes hold and adjusts the pH back to where it wants to be, this means the pH swings which is not what we want!

Adjusting the KH is tricky and very very easy to get wrong and then things can quickly go to pan!

So when we talk about adjusting the pH there's really a decision to be made before we start debating methods, firstly we should ask is 'do we really want to start mucking around with this, is it worth it'.

The process of nitrification (the cycling process) drives the pH down naturally, this will stabilise once the fishless cycle is done. so when people have problems with falling pH particularly when fishless cycling we usually say to just do water changes to stabilise it but to get a test kit for KH so we can assess if there is going to be a long term pH problem that needs tinkering with or if it'll just stabilise once the cycle is done.

so.... clear as mud?!

That actually was quite clear, thanks for that! I'll run out and get a KH test kit ASAP and when I get it, I should test the tap water for KH right?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

there's more to pH than that, i don't even understand it all fully, however that's a reasonable start to fully understanding it.

KH kits can be a little hard to get hold of so be prepared to pop into a couple of fish shops or maybe wait for someone to order one in for you. As ever with test kits make sure it's liquid based.

yes, test the tap water and the tank water