75% water changes

[itiwhetu]

I am getting my head around this idea of 75% water changes. A lot of the members have hard water from source, so how do they cope with say Discus and a 75% water change. I have rain water as my source how do I do a 75% water change on my African cichlid tank, where my water is soft and acid from source.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I am getting my head around this idea of 75% water changes. A lot of the members have hard water from source, so how do they cope with say Discus and a 75% water change. I have rain water as my source how do I do a 75% water change on my African cichlid tank, where my water is soft and acid from source.

It would be difficult to have enough replacement rainwater on hand at all times to be able to do large water changes. Most people with a hard water supply but soft water fish use RO water, either buying in the RO water, or have their own RO unit. Then the tank can be pure RO water, or a percentage mix of their tapwater and RO.

It's one reason we suggest people aim to keep whatever species will suit their water supply, or to ensure they can get RO water if they live in a hard water area but want soft water fish. Takes more knowledge about pH, GH, KH and other aspects of water chemistry to get it right.

If you use rainwater now, how do you manage during long dry spells without rain?

 

[kwi]

I am getting my head around this idea of 75% water changes. A lot of the members have hard water from source, so how do they cope with say Discus and a 75% water change. I have rain water as my source how do I do a 75% water change on my African cichlid tank, where my water is soft and acid from source.

How did you initially condition the tank water to match the hardness and pH required?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

It would be difficult to have enough replacement rainwater on hand at all times to be able to do large water changes. Most people with a hard water supply but soft water fish use RO water, either buying in the RO water, or have their own RO unit. Then the tank can be pure RO water, or a percentage mix of their tapwater and RO.

It's one reason we suggest people aim to keep whatever species will suit their water supply, or to ensure they can get RO water if they live in a hard water area but want soft water fish. Takes more knowledge about pH, GH, KH and other aspects of water chemistry to get it right.

If you use rainwater now, how do you manage during long dry spells without rain?

Not judging you here either, I use rainwater on one of my tanks because my tap water is hard, but I have otocinclus in that tank, and my tap water is too hard for those guys, but I have a covered rain barrel and use that most of the time, using a 50/50 mix of rainwater and tapwater.

But even when its only a 15 gallon tank, when there's a dry spell like we had over the last couple of months, I don't have enough rainwater stored to keep that tank maintained with weekly 50-75% water changes. So I also use some RO in the place of rainwater when rain is low, being that rainwater is close to RO water in terms of pH, KH, GH etc. The 50/50 mix is enough to make my water soft enough for the otos, and simple enough for someone terrible at maths like me to keep it stable.

 

[Colin_T]

I am getting my head around this idea of 75% water changes. A lot of the members have hard water from source, so how do they cope with say Discus and a 75% water change. I have rain water as my source how do I do a 75% water change on my African cichlid tank, where my water is soft and acid from source.

I used to make up water in holding tanks/ containers. I would fill the container with tapwater and add Rift Lake water conditioner (minerals like calcium and magnesium), then aerate the water for a week before using it to do water changes.

Regarding your rain water being acid, that is not a good sign. Rain water should have a neutral pH (7.0) and 0 GH. If your rain water has a pH below 7.0, something is contaminating it and making it acid. This could be exhaust fumes from vehicles, or pollutants from an industrial area.

If your rain water pH is acidic, you should probably get it tested for pollutants and filter it through carbon before drinking it.

 

[itiwhetu]

I live on the west coast of the South Island, New Zealand. We have around 2.5 meters of rain per year so a draught is not a problem. When I say acid water it will be 6.9-7.0 rather than 7.0-7.1 that is because it is collected from the roof of our house. We use it as our drinking water for the house and store over 20000 liters all the time it is soft the acidity comes from the leaf mulch etc in the bottom of the storage tanks. Great for fish keeping, wonderful for amazon fish. Not so good for african cichlids. This would be some of the most pure water anywhere on the planet.

 

[itiwhetu]

What I do, is everything is to do with nature. An amazon soft water/ acid tank will be set up with a neutral base taken from a local river or stream and with drift wood and neutral rocks. Planted to around 50% of the volume. This system will continue to go soft and acid. 25% water changes will maintain it above 6.5 ph. African cichlids, I use lime chip in the base and neutral rocks this system will give the hardness required and with 25% water changes per week will maintain a ph below 8. I would like to encourage you to think about fish keeping and try to do things as naturally as possible. An example of how hardy fish are, I had a tank of Severums they bred and bred. It was a 300 liter system everyone was happy there were about 25 fish in this tank in the end, with youngsters and there parents. One day I decided to do a ph test on this system ( I'm not a great fan of testing all the time as I think it takes you away from looking at the fish and what they are doing ) Anyhow the ph was 5.2 in theory these fish should have been dead but no they were still breeding and were fine. We sometimes spend to much time looking at numbers rather than looking at the fish.

 

[Colin_T]

I live on the west coast of the South Island, New Zealand. We have around 2.5 meters of rain per year so a draught is not a problem. When I say acid water it will be 6.9-7.0 rather than 7.0-7.1 that is because it is collected from the roof of our house.

A pH of 6.9-7.0 is neutral and fine. Acid rain generally has a pH below 6.0.

 

[itiwhetu]

A pH of 6.9-7.0 is neutral and fine. Acid rain generally has a pH below 6.0.

We live in a rain forest rather than an industrial park

 

[seangee]

One day I decided to do a ph test on this system ( I'm not a great fan of testing all the time as I think it takes you away from looking at the fish and what they are doing ) Anyhow the ph was 5.2 in theory these fish should have been dead but no they were still breeding and were fine. We sometimes spend to much time looking at numbers rather than looking at the fish.

For S.A. cichlids that is absolutely fine. Quoted numbers in species profiles usually refers to the water where they are naturally found. pH is not nearly as big a deal as many people (and fish shop workers) assume. The mineral content (GH) is far more important and fish will adapt to pH within a fairly wide range as long as there are no big or regular swings. 3 of my tanks have a pH below 5.5. Can't test that low but when I borrowed a digital tester my main tank was 5.3.

Sadly I do have to use RO to achieve this. The NO3 in my tap water is 50ppm. Much as our little island has a reputation for always raining the annual rainfall is not actually that high and I get through 250 litres of the stuff a week (and that's just for the fish tanks ), so for a stable supply RO is my only real option.

 

[itiwhetu]

My next question about this. You can tell I have had a sleep. Doing a 75% water change on a planted community tank where do the fish go. Say, the Discus, if I took 75% of the water out of that system the fish would be almost lying on their sides. I would have thought that would be rather stressful for them.

 

[kwi]

My next question about this. You can tell I have had a sleep. Doing a 75% water change on a planted community tank where do the fish go. Say, the Discus, if I took 75% of the water out of that system the fish would be almost lying on their sides. I would have thought that would be rather stressful for them.

Advice is to go as low as possible while keeping the fish upright. 75% isn't set in stone and as you've noted doesn't cover every situation.

 

[itiwhetu]

I started this discussion because I was told that 25% water changes was old school and the new way of doing things is to do 75% changes and keep the water as close to source as possible. That is fine but then we have a member with a fighting fish in water with ph 8 and is being told to do large water changes with water that has a ph of 8.5. How is this good for the fish.

 

[AilyNC]

I think there's lots to learn from natural set up and approach. But also it's not really natural in a tank either. The body of water is more static - a river flows, lakes can have their own tide. But definitely trying to mirror their natural environment sounds like a healthy approach.

 

[itiwhetu]

I think there's lots to learn from natural set up and approach. But also it's not really natural in a tank either. The body of water is more static - a river flows, lakes can have their own tide. But definitely trying to mirror their natural environment sounds like a healthy approach.

I am more than willing to help the members of this forum in getting their heads around my approach to fish keeping. LFS's have an interest in fish dying. It has disturbed me for a number of years the amount of chemical that is put into tanks and it's effect on the tanks, I have been completely chemical free for 20 years now. I have proved that my system works, it is time to pass on some of what I have learned.