6 gallon ADF tank

[gwand]

I'm definitely excited to watch them grow! As I said earlier, they're too young to sex, but hopefully I got lucky and got at least one male. I wouldn't be sad if both of them turned out female, but it would definitely be cool to hear the calls.

I did put in a couple mini terracotta pots yesterday. I can't tell how much they're being used yet, but I know at least one has spent a bit of time checking them out.

By the way, what temperatures do you keep your frogs at, @Lcc86 and @Jamie D. ? When I was doing research, I got wildly different temperature ranges. Some sources said they preferred cooler water (65-72F/18-22C), while some say they need warmer (75-82F/24-28C). It seems like there isn't a commonly agreed-upon temp range for them, which is strange considering how popular they are. I did have the tank unheated initially, with temps at ~73F during the day and ~71F at night, but I was worried that was a little too cold. I had a small secondhand pre-set heater that I decided to put in the tank. There isn't anything on it to indicate what it's set to, but temp testing throughout the day shows it must be set at 80F. Would this be too hot for them? Would it be better to have them in the low 70s?

My ADFs have been living at 78F for one year and doing well. I have a male and female.

 

[Jamie D.]

By the way, what temperatures do you keep your frogs at, @Lcc86 and @Jamie D. ? When I was doing research, I got wildly different temperature ranges. Some sources said they preferred cooler water (65-72F/18-22C), while some say they need warmer (75-82F/24-28C). It seems like there isn't a commonly agreed-upon temp range for them, which is strange considering how popular they are. I did have the tank unheated initially, with temps at ~73F during the day and ~71F at night, but I was worried that was a little too cold. I had a small secondhand pre-set heater that I decided to put in the tank. There isn't anything on it to indicate what it's set to, but temp testing throughout the day shows it must be set at 80F. Would this be too hot for them? Would it be better to have them in the low 70s?

My heater in the tank is set to 76F - but my canister filter sits on a small stand beside the desk where the tank is, which is closer to the actual house heating vent. So when the house heat is running more often, the tank occasionally goes up to around 80F (because the filter is in that warm air stream), and the frogs are fine with that for a bit. They seem happy either way. I haven't ever kept mine cooler than 75-76F.

 

[Seisage]

My heater in the tank is set to 76F - but my canister filter sits on a small stand beside the desk where the tank is, which is closer to the actual house heating vent. So when the house heat is running more often, the tank occasionally goes up to around 80F (because the filter is in that warm air stream), and the frogs are fine with that for a bit. They seem happy either way. I haven't ever kept mine cooler than 75-76F.

So just looking at my thermometer now mine are at about 25.5. I was so ignorant about 10 years ago when I first got mine and had no heater whatsoever, I lived in a very warm flat so I think the ambient temperature covered for my early mistakes. It's my understanding they can tolerate quite a ride range of temperatures but I do keep mine heated (they also share their tank with some fish these days so unheated isn't an option).

Thank you! I guess my question then is whether you think 80F/26.7C would be detrimental long-term It probably wouldn't be a huge deal to go out and get a little 25W heater set to a lower temp, but it'd be nice to be able to use equipment I already have.

I think I only have boys left now, I'd like to get some more at some point but feeling a little disheartened at losing a few in recent months so won't be rushing.

@Seisage If you can get some floating plants in your tank they will start hanging out at the top in amongst them, which is always fun to watch.

Yes, I saw that you had lost some Hopefully if you do try again with more in the future, they'll be a better batch.

I'll definitely look into some floating plants. I have frogbit and water lettuce in my other tank, but neither of those really do well with a solid lid, so maybe I'll see if I can locate some salvinia or something.

 

[Jamie D.]

Thank you! I guess my question then is whether you think 80F/26.7C would be detrimental long-term It probably wouldn't be a huge deal to go out and get a little 25W heater set to a lower temp, but it'd be nice to be able to use equipment I already have.

All of the advice I've seen is that 78F is the upper limit of what you'd want to keep them at long-term. And they'd be in cooler temps closer to the mid-lower 70's in the wild. So I don't think I'd keep mine at 80F for long periods of time, personally. I normally vent my tank when I see the temps creeping up (I open the top "door" to let heat out).

I bought a mini Hygger thermometer for their tank - same one I use in my Betta tank, and the temp is adjustable, which is super-handy. I think it was pretty inexpensive, if I remember right.

 

[Seisage]

All of the advice I've seen is that 78F is the upper limit of what you'd want to keep them at long-term. And they'd be in cooler temps closer to the mid-lower 70's in the wild. So I don't think I'd keep mine at 80F for long periods of time, personally. I normally vent my tank when I see the temps creeping up (I open the top "door" to let heat out).

I bought a mini Hygger thermometer for their tank - same one I use in my Betta tank, and the temp is adjustable, which is super-handy. I think it was pretty inexpensive, if I remember right.

Good to know, thank you! I'll work on getting them an adjustable heater. You're right, the mini hygger ones aren't too bad in terms of price. The 50W one is only about $18

 

[Seisage]

Not much of an update, but the frogs are doing well! They eat voraciously, once they find their food... The terracotta dish has worked out alright, but it does take them a minute or two to find the food, and unless I'm watching the tank for the following ~15 minutes, I can't always tell if both frogs have gotten food. I've done target feeding a few times, but most of my plants are floating right now, which makes it difficult to find and target the frogs. I'll probably shift to mostly or only target feeding once I can get the plants settled.

They've also gotten a lot more comfortable in the tank. I feel bad that I'll have to partially tear down the tank and move everything in a week, but it'll give me a chance to actually scape the tank. I figured it would be best to wait until after the tank was moved to do anything even semi-complicated. But oh boy I will be glad to finally have all of my epiphytes attached to wood or rock. Having them floating has been a pain. The anubias has been throwing a fit at being moved after I ditched the gravel and has been melting like crazy. There's some new growth, but the melting is annoying. As for the bacopa, I think it's doing okay? It also has some melting leaves, although it was growing submersed at the LFS, so maybe it's also just stressed out still.

Most important update though: the frogs finally have names! The first one (in the beautifully jazzy pose) is named Soup, and the darker one in the second photo is Dumpling. They're really such characters. Last week, there was an incident at feeding time, where Dumpling, um... missed... and Soup's poor little bottom got a bit munched on. I love them dearly.

 

[Lcc86]

They are brilliant characters, and yes they do accidentally munch each other from time to time, good job they don't have teeth and are pretty harmless! Lol. I'm sure they will love their new setup when you're able to sort it.

 

[Jamie D.]

Soup and Dumpling - I love it! Glad they're settling in so well! I'm sure your plants will settle in nicely once you get them all mounted/planted in the new place.

 

[Seisage]

Well, it got really grody after the move because of plants floating around (and also melting ) and I think the filter must've gotten a little shocked because I started getting a lot of diatom growth on the glass and plants, BUT... at long last, after a thorough clean, the tank is scaped!

I'm very pleased with how it turned out. I spent a large chunk of yesterday staging the rocks outside of the tank to get them in a good arrangement. I'll have to really enjoy it for the next two days before it gets gross again

Still having issues with the bacopa leaves melting. Not sure what's up because they were growing submerged at the LFS, so it's not emergent growth die-off, I don't think. Maybe some deficiency?? I'll try dosing with Flourish more regularly and see if that helps... The mushy leaves just get really gross and foul the tank like crazy when they finally disintegrate.

 

[MattW]

Perhaps they only recently got them in at your LFS and are still changing from emersed to submersed? Tbf even if they were submersed plants it is normal for old leaves to die off over time as they put energy into new growth. I get that all the time with my Hygrophila corymbosa compact.

I've always had issues with bacopa specifically monnieri. Even with a high nutrient substrate + ferts it never did well. I use Rotala indica 'bonsai' instead as it is a somewhat similar-looking plant and it grows well in my tanks.

 

[Seisage]

Perhaps they only recently got them in at your LFS and are still changing from emersed to submersed? Tbf even if they were submersed plants it is normal for old leaves to die off over time as they put energy into new growth. I get that all the time with my Hygrophila corymbosa compact.

I've always had issues with bacopa specifically monnieri. Even with a high nutrient substrate + ferts it never did well. I use Rotala indica 'bonsai' instead as it is a somewhat similar-looking plant and it grows well in my tanks.

Yeah, that's true. There is new growth, so I'm hopeful. Maybe I just have to wait it out.
Unfortunately for me, I do think what I have is monnieri It was just sold as "Bacopa" in the shop, but comparing photos, it looks most like monnieri. I'll definitely keep trying with it, but I'll probably swap it out with something else if it continues to do poorly.

 

[Jamie D.]

That turned out stunning! Well done! I'm sure it'll be an overgrown jungle in no time, and you'll be trimming plants nearly every water change like I have to (misery loves company, but frogs love jungles, so...we do what we have to do).

 

[Seisage]

This tank is honestly struggling with algae/diatom/cyanobacteria growth and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. I know normally it's due to excess nutrients/ammonia in newly set-up tanks, but ammonia's essentially zero and nitrates are low too (although it's been a bit longer since I've tested nitrates). The light's also only on for about 6 hours a day at this point. I've been reducing it and am afraid to go lower with the plants. Dealing with it for now by using an old toothbrush to scrub it off and hoping it dies down eventually...

Also sort of created a problem by trying to solve one I got six amano shrimp for the tank (they're only little right now), in the hopes that they'd keep the biofilm at bay. They are eating it, but they're also pooping machines!! I never expected shrimp to poop so much! Ah well... they're cute, so they can stick around lol.

In frog news, had a little scare with Dumpling these past few days. Noticed a translucent bump on her back and immediately worried about fungus. But it wasn't fuzzy/cottony, so I decided to wait and see. A day or so later, there were more "bumps" that looked a lot like bubbles of separated skin and my relieved suspicion was confirmed when the next day she had a sort of whitish cast and the day after that, she was normally colored with no bumps or bubbles. I think she simply was shedding! It's strange, I've never actually seen either of the frogs shed in the ~6 weeks I've had them. I didn't even actually see Dumpling's old skin come off this time. I think they may just be incredibly secretive about it...

I did still order some methylene blue. It's a great, gentle antifungal/antibacterial to have on hand, just in case, and I'll be able to use it for both amphibians and fish.

 

[Lcc86]

This tank is honestly struggling with algae/diatom/cyanobacteria growth and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. I know normally it's due to excess nutrients/ammonia in newly set-up tanks, but ammonia's essentially zero and nitrates are low too (although it's been a bit longer since I've tested nitrates). The light's also only on for about 6 hours a day at this point. I've been reducing it and am afraid to go lower with the plants. Dealing with it for now by using an old toothbrush to scrub it off and hoping it dies down eventually...

Also sort of created a problem by trying to solve one I got six amano shrimp for the tank (they're only little right now), in the hopes that they'd keep the biofilm at bay. They are eating it, but they're also pooping machines!! I never expected shrimp to poop so much! Ah well... they're cute, so they can stick around lol.

In frog news, had a little scare with Dumpling these past few days. Noticed a translucent bump on her back and immediately worried about fungus. But it wasn't fuzzy/cottony, so I decided to wait and see. A day or so later, there were more "bumps" that looked a lot like bubbles of separated skin and my relieved suspicion was confirmed when the next day she had a sort of whitish cast and the day after that, she was normally colored with no bumps or bubbles. I think she simply was shedding! It's strange, I've never actually seen either of the frogs shed in the ~6 weeks I've had them. I didn't even actually see Dumpling's old skin come off this time. I think they may just be incredibly secretive about it...

I did still order some methylene blue. It's a great, gentle antifungal/antibacterial to have on hand, just in case, and I'll be able to use it for both amphibians and fish.

It's the weirdest thing if you ever see them mid-shed, they take their skin off starting at the back and then use the back legs to push it over their head, kinda like taking off a jumper, except then they shove it all in their mouths! They're such weird little guys....

How do they get on with the shrimp? I've sometimes thought about shrimp but not sure if they would accidentally grab at them and then eat/injure them.

 

[Seisage]

It's the weirdest thing if you ever see them mid-shed, they take their skin off starting at the back and then use the back legs to push it over their head, kinda like taking off a jumper, except then they shove it all in their mouths! They're such weird little guys....

How do they get on with the shrimp? I've sometimes thought about shrimp but not sure if they would accidentally grab at them and then eat/injure them.

I wish I could've seen it! It sounds like such a goofy endeavor. Fitting for inherently goofy creatures.

They get on with the shrimp pretty well, honestly. Occasionally they'll take a lunge at one, but they're so bad at aiming and slow enough that the shrimp can always dart out of the way well before they'd get chomped. The shrimp are also still much too large to actually be eaten by the frogs, even though they're nowhere near full grown for amanos. But I guess it would depend on the relative size of your frogs. Adult ADFs could potentially grab juveniles or small adult shrimp, if they happened to get lucky and catch one unawares. As it stands with my juvenile frogs and juvenile shrimp, I'd expect a lost antenna or two at worst.