Redoing my 6 gallon

[Innesfan]

I've never used RO water. Can the issue be mineral deficiency? The loss of guanine is unusual and bettas with heavy guanine present, such as dragon scales, usually have the reverse problem--it increases and can cover the eyes causing blindness. So to see it shrinking likes this make me wonder if the fish isn't getting essential minerals.

 

[Lcc86]

I've never used RO water. Can the issue be mineral deficiency? The loss of guanine is unusual and bettas with heavy guanine present, such as dragon scales, usually have the reverse problem--it increases and can cover the eyes causing blindness. So to see it shrinking likes this make me wonder if the fish isn't getting essential minerals.

I've no idea tbh, I do remineralise using a couple of Seachem products. I could try adding a little more, I don't want to start messing with things without knowing the problem but could be worth trying a gradual increase and see if that helps?

Is there anywhere I can read more about this?

 

[Innesfan]

If you are remineralizing, then my concern is likely misplaced. The combination of battered fins and guanine loss does indicate something is off.

 

[Lcc86]

I just checked as I was thinking perhaps things had crashed, gH is 5 dkh, kH is 2 dkh, and pH is showing 7.2. From what I understand that's pretty good for a betta? I could be wrong. His temp is a little low at 24 so perhaps I could up this slightly.

 

[Innesfan]

If I'm doing the conversion correctly that's @ 75F which is low. My bettas are all at 78-82F. That said, I don't think that would cause these symptoms.

 

[Lcc86]

Yeah I've just turned it up a tad. He flared really nicely and I ran to grab my phone to get a pic but he swam off before I could get back! It's just his top fin that is affected, I was originally paranoid as I lost my last betta to fin rot that started in the top fin and then affected the body. The best way I can describe his fin is that it looks a little tatty.

 

[Lcc86]

I got some new pics this morning, as you can see the whole back half of his body is now a very dull dark blue I'm at a real loss here unless there's something internal going on for him. I look at his fins and convince myself there's fin rot but I think that's because I'm telling myself it must be. I was wracking my brains for anything that coincided with the change in his behaviour and loss of colour, and the only thing I can think of is I started adding tannins using roibois tea a few months ago. But that shouldn't have caused such a crazy change in his presentation so I think I'm just getting desperate.

I did do my weekly routine water change yesterday didn't add any roibois so it's a bit more diluted now, although still present, so I'll see if there's any difference but he would be a real anomaly of a fish if it does turn out to be the tea! As ever he is eating well and comes to the front for attention at times which is positive. He was such a handsome little guy when I first got him that it's such a shame to see him lose that colour.

 

[Abaddon]

I've never seen anything like this tbh... the tail looks like pretty "standard" fin rot, but the loss of pigment is definitely weird. What kind of tea do you use, are you sure it didn't contain any additives? I see you've already used Kanaplex, maybe try another broad-spectrum medication? I'm sorry it's happening to your guy

 

[Lcc86]

I've never seen anything like this tbh... the tail looks like pretty "standard" fin rot, but the loss of pigment is definitely weird. What kind of tea do you use, are you sure it didn't contain any additives? I see you've already used Kanaplex, maybe try another broad-spectrum medication? I'm sorry it's happening to your guy

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-fairly-traded-rooibos-x80-tea-bags-200g it was this one, just picked it up in the supermarket one day, I checked it didn't have any caffeine content before purchase. He seems a bit more chipper this morning, so will keep an eye and dilute more tannins out at the next water change on Sunday to see if it helps at all. I don't want to chuck meds at him without knowing what the issue is but it's definitely a weird one!

 

[Innesfan]

Loss of pigment itself normally wouldn't bother me since so many bettas carry the marble gene these days and their colors and patterns routinely change, and quite rapidly and dramatically, throughout their lives. But this is the loss to the guanine layer--that thick coating of iridescence associated with dragon scales. I've never seen this. As I mentioned in an earlier response the problem is usually the reverse--an expansion of the guanine that covers the eyes and causes blindness, one of several reasons why I've never kept one.

 

[Lcc86]

Loss of pigment itself normally wouldn't bother me since so many bettas carry the marble gene these days and their colors and patterns routinely change, and quite rapidly and dramatically, throughout their lives. But this is the loss to the guanine layer--that thick coating of iridescence associated with dragon scales. I've never seen this. As I mentioned in an earlier response the problem is usually the reverse--an expansion of the guanine that covers the eyes and causes blindness, one of several reasons why I've never kept one.

Yeah I had never kept one before and admit I didn't even know that dragon scale was a thing, I just kinda fell for him in the shop! I'll continue to monitor him, maybe he will improve in time. He definitely has a great appetite which does give me some hope.

 

[Innesfan]

Well, live and learn. Found this while searching on "does the betta marble gene affect dragon scale?"

"The betta marble gene affects dragon scale bettas by introducing instability in color and patterning, often causing the thick, white "dragon" scaling to change, melt, or develop dark spots over time. While the dragon scale gene creates the thick, armor-like, iridescent white plating, the marble gene is a partially dominant, highly unstable gene that causes color changes throughout a fish's life."

So, the color change and dragon scale 'melt'--and that's a new one on me--are due to the effects of the marble gene and not disease.

 

[Lcc86]

Well, live and learn. Found this while searching on "does the betta marble gene affect dragon scale?"

"The betta marble gene affects dragon scale bettas by introducing instability in color and patterning, often causing the thick, white "dragon" scaling to change, melt, or develop dark spots over time. While the dragon scale gene creates the thick, armor-like, iridescent white plating, the marble gene is a partially dominant, highly unstable gene that causes color changes throughout a fish's life."

So, the color change and dragon scale 'melt'--and that's a new one on me--are due to the effects of the marble gene and not disease.

Interesting, I'll look into this a bit more. I know the issues with bettas are talked about so much on here (and elsewhere), I'm not sure if I will buy another one as I don't want to contribute to further breeding issues, but I keep nano tanks so don't have a great amount of choice in what fish I can keep. I'll update in a few weeks on whether the dilution of tannins contributes to any further behaviour changes, I suspect it's highly unlikely but you never know!

 

[Lcc86]

Well I'm not sure how to explain this, but I have been slowly diluting the tannins out of the tank with my routine water changes, and my boy's colour is returning! Apologies for the bad pics, I grabbed them while feeding (also he doesn't have a bent spine, it's just bad timing with the pics!). He is a bit more active as well. I have no idea if getting rid of the tannins is just a coincidence, but I will keep monitoring and update on his condition. I'm not 100% happy with his fins still but hopefully we're going in the right direction.

 

[Lcc86]

Been a good while since I updated this thread. For a few weeks after my last post my boy lost a lot more of his fins, so I gave him two courses of kanaplex and that seems to have fixed the problem. He had lost most of his dorsal and caudal fins and was looking rather sorry for himself. I also upped his feeding and he is not only much more active now, but his fins are growing back in nicely. He's so active I struggle to get pictures of him, as soon as I go anywhere near the tank he goes mad, so I haven't got any good progress pictures. I've attached the only half-decent pic I can get which shows the growth. It doesn't look like much but considering his dorsal fin was almost completely gone in mid-April I'm happy with how he's getting on now. His colours continue to change but the main thing is he seems much happier and his fins seem much better, even if he does look a bit "bottom-heavy" currently!