4g Stocking

[CAC]

Hello, well my only betta died last night, from what i think was an internal parasite. There was nothing externally, and no signs of illness, other than not eating for the past couple of days...
So whilst its a kinda sad end, im wondering what to do with the tank...
I dont know really what to do with it, but as brackish is a particular interest of mine (and will be very easy to do because im getting a refractometer, SW test kits and salt for my nano tank)
Just wondering what peoples thoughs on such a small tank are...
I was kinda thinking of some sort of a native tank, with oceanic rocks and some shrimps, hermits, snails etc and even a small goby if someone could reccomend one? If i went for a very "rugged" look, with algeas or seaweeds and things, then i think it could be very interesting, and look quite cool
I dunno what people think, so anything really would be a good start, even FW or SW would be ok, and i have a heater for tropical, but no filter/powerhead, allthough i can get one. I dont really want to spend more than say, £50, but i think the fact that i have/will have all the relevent stuff then it should be ok.

Thanks, now any surrgestions?

Mikey

 

[DarkEntity]

1 dwarf puffer and an otto

 

[nmonks]

A native marine tank would work well. Only add one or two small coldwater gobies. But otherwise, you can have lots of "living rock" if you want to call it that, plus shrimps, worms, and so on. Anemones can work well (beadlet anemones especially) but in really tiny tanks they can spread profusely and would be a hazard to any small fish. Definitely worth making a trip to the seaside! There's some very cool coldwater marine aquarium stuff here:

http/www.glaucus.org.uk/wetthumb.htm

Cheers, Neale

 

[CAC]

Thanks for the surrgestion Dark, but ive looked into them before, and id like to go with something brackish

Thanks for the advice neale Do you think that if i got some rocks, they would be like tropical live rock and act as my main filter? I was thinking of getting a hydor elite mini, which at 220lph, would give me a turnover of just under 15x per hour.
With regards to the amenomes, if i could find them (sure i could...) then would i have to remove them from the rock (how would i do that without injury?!?) or would i need to take the rock with them on? Would the beadlet anenomes need halide lighting like the tropical ones?
The seaside isnt too far from me, but im pretty sure that i could go in the next few weeks, take the dog for a walk, and see what i can find...
For sand, should i use some sand from the rock pool they are in or some from the beach, or am i best using some of the sand i have now?
Id have to get an air pump and stone too for oxygen replacement i presume...
Also, i might try one of the smaller crab species, if i can fine a tiny one (sometimes see those ones which are thumb nail size or smaller)

Thanks for the responses, Mikey

 

[nmonks]

Do you think that if i got some rocks, they would be like tropical live rock and act as my main filter?

Not really. You need a proper filter in coldwater marines, if only for the water movement (extra oxygen)

I was thinking of getting a hydor elite mini, which at 220lph, would give me a turnover of just under 15x per hour.

Sounds perfect.

With regards to the amenomes, if i could find them (sure i could...) then would i have to remove them from the rock (how would i do that without injury?!?) or would i need to take the rock with them on? Would the beadlet anenomes need halide lighting like the tropical ones?

You winkle off the anemones with your thumbnail, very carefully so you don't damage them (= certain death of the anemone). Beadlets are easy to collect. They don't care tuppence about the light as they have no algae in them. Snakelocks are even nicer (and somewhat brackish tolerant too!) but they are found farther down the shore and need good light, because they do have algae.

The seaside isnt too far from me, but im pretty sure that i could go in the next few weeks, take the dog for a walk, and see what i can find...

Best way to do it. You can probably mature the tank with "river shrimp" from your local fish shop. These will do very well in rockpool tanks. Kept them thus many, many times.

For sand, should i use some sand from the rock pool they are in or some from the beach, or am i best using some of the sand i have now?

Either. I'd personally use clean beach sand mixed with some smashed up shells. It looks more realistic plus buffers the water.

Id have to get an air pump and stone too for oxygen replacement i presume...

Probably essential in summer, not so much in winter.

Also, i might try one of the smaller crab species, if i can fine a tiny one (sometimes see those ones which are thumb nail size or smaller)

Forget about shore crabs (Carcinus maenas) as these things [a] grow rapidly and kill everything. Spider crabs don't stay alive long. Hermits are a better bet, but they're quite clumsy and do get big eventually. Shrimps are a much better bet all round.

Oh, I even have a chapter on coldwater marines in my brackish book! Half done by me, and half by an aquarist in California, so we cover both Pacific and Atlantic species. It's not a big chapter, but it covers the basics and suggests some hardy species. So far as I know, there aren't many/any books on coldwater marines.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[CAC]

Ok cool, thanks for the info.
I am going to a marine/freshwater shop tomorrow, to get some bloodworms and stuff, so ill see if they have any river shrimp, but i have never seen them before...
If i cant get hold of any, then could i fishless cycle? (allthough it wouldnt be for a couple of days, cos havnt got all my stuff...)

What SG would you think would be best?
And would i need to use RO water, or just normal, dechlorianated tapwater?

Thanks, Mikey

 

[nmonks]

Yes, you can use river shrimp to cycle a tank. Works fine. They are difficult to kill! Because they are from the Thames Estuary they don't care about the salinity. So run it at SG 1.010 or more for the time being, just to get the filter nice and ready.

As for what SG you eventually set the tank to, that depends on where you collect your stuff. Take your hydrometer with you and find out the SG in the rock pool. Try and mimic that as closely as possible. Bear in mind that SG goes up and water temperature goes down. Normal seawater around the UK will have an SG of around 1.026 at 35 ppt salt and at 15 degrees C. The same water at 25 degrees will be around 1.025. So long as you choose rockpool stuff that is adapted to changing salinity, this won't really matter much, but it's something to consider.

Ordinary tap water + dechlorinator + marine salt mix works fine. Coldwater marines are largely unbothered by nitrates, especially rock pool and estuarine stuff.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[CAC]

Take your hydrometer with you and find out the SG in the rock pool.

Refractometer all the way neale
Ok, ill measure the salinity from where i collect them, and take it from there...

What should i do if i cant find any river shrimp?

Mikey

 

[nmonks]

Collect some stuff from the beach. Shore crab, ragworms, winkles, dog whelks. Really anything. Not too much though. Shore crabs are the best as their are essentially immortal, but you will need to release the thing once the tank is mature. They're very destructive.

Neale

What should i do if i cant find any river shrimp?

 

[CAC]

What, so do two trips?
One for the stuff you mentioned above, and then my shrimps gobys etc?
Its just that by now too far i mean like 1.5hrs

Mikey

 

[White Whale]

Why not a couple of bumblebee gobies?

 

[nmonks]

Seriously, unless you mature the filter first (maybe as a tropical marine tank with some mollies), then there's no 100% safe way to stock it with coldwater marines/brackish. So basically yes, two trips. One to get rocks and little inverts, and then another after a month or so to get the more finicky stuff like gobies and cushion starfish.

Cheers, Neale

What, so do two trips?
One for the stuff you mentioned above, and then my shrimps gobys etc?
Its just that by now too far i mean like 1.5hrs

 

[CAC]

Ok then
Are starfish easy to find, and where can you find them?
I havent ever seen them in rockpools (that i can remember..)

To be honest, id like some bumble bees, but id rather try this, because you can have a bigger veriety of interesting, birtish animals...Shrimps, gobys, snails, hermits, algeas, stars, worms and even the rock will all be more interesting and hopefully, full of life...

Mikey

 

[nmonks]

The starfish you want is called the cushion star. It is fairly small, corpse-green, and doesn't move about much. BUT, it thrives in aquaria and will not harm anything else. Apparently, they will also breed in aquaria! Something your reefkeeper aquarists can't say happens with their starfish.

http/www.glaucus.org.uk/cushion.htm

I also kept Astropecten irregularis starfish, and these were very pretty and very hardy. They would "levitate" in and out of the sand in an amazing way. BUT, they're deep water and we only had them from doing trawling. You won't find them on rocky shores, and if you see one on a sandy beach, you're very lucky.

The starfish you don't want is the common starfish, Asterias rubens. While hardy enough in a chilled aquarium, it is not good at room temperature and gets very big.

http/www.glaucus.org.uk/Asterias.htm

Trust me, once you get a coldwater marine tank going, and you're sussed out what works and what doesn't in your tank, it'll be the best tank you've ever kept. It's like a super marine reef tank, but without the prices, and every time you go to the beach, you can come back with some cool new critter!

Cheers,

Neale

 

[CAC]

Cool, sounds pretty interesting...
Ill just go for the greener stars then if the commons are an oragy colour...
I surrpose ill just have to look hard and be lucky to get one, but hopefully it should work out
My uncle lives near the sea, so if i went down there, could i get my stuff, and keep it in a bucket of seawater with an airstone until i get back?
Also, is taking any wildlife from rockpools and streams illegal?

Mikey