2nd Tank. All Fish Dead

[Queen Bee]

The filter media I am using is an aqua filter with sponge only, no carbon as of now, I may add a little pouch to the unit. I am also using a sponge air filter. No zeolite or any other chemicals. Just a little bit of fish food has been going in the tank since Friday morning.

Glad to hear over dosing on water conditioner is not going to harm any of the fish.

I am using the api test tube liquid drop tests. Just picked up a test to get a chloramine reading. That one was only available in the strip test. Not accurate, but will give a general idea of what is up with the water. Tanks are reading 0 for chloramine and so is the tap water. Will check the new water before I do any water changes.

Did notice my shower water did smell musty today. Again been raining a while.

Couldn't find nice healthy platys today. Also bought some until I noticed a couple of dead ones in the back of the tank. Came home with 2 dwarf chilids for the 29 Gallon and 1 swordtail for the 10 Gallon. Seems like today, more than other Sundays when I go out, there was a lot of empty tanks or tanks that were labeled not for sale. I was really paying attention to the tanks ( even outside my preference) since the loss I suffered.

 

[paulypaul182]

After reading about water companies changing levels now and then, I went to check mine and see what they put in theres. For all those living in the UK with Severn trent as their company, these links are very useful:

http/www.stwater.co.uk/server.php?postco...tySubmit=Search Just tap in your post code and all your readings will be there. The post code set on that site is for my area. It seems that I have various metals in my water. Im just starting my tank up so Im hoping this wont affect my fish.
http/www.stwater.co.uk/upload/pdf/Facts_...D_Tap_water.pdf

Im glad that overdosing on tap conditioner is ok. I was wondering how I would measure my buckets out once i begin changing water but now I feel much better about putting a little more than is needed.

 

[Queen Bee]

I am uncertain about the bacteria bloom theory now. I added 2 dwarf gourami 4 hours ago. One is clinging to life the other not far behind. Initally they hid as soon as they were in the tank. After 2 hours, I noticed them hanging out at the top by the filter (just like the others did before they died.) Tested the water last night. Ammonia read 0. just tested after noticing the fish, it read .5

Did a water change and removed fish. I think something else is going on here. Should emptying and sanitizing the tank be my best option at this point? What is the proper way to do that?

 

[madpiano]

what are your pipes made from and your hot water storage tank (if you have one) ???

If the snail croaked it, I would actually look at lead and copper levels. If it rains a lot in your area, why don't you try rain water to change water with ? I know some people don't like it, but I live in London UK and the rain water is much better than you might think. I just wouldn't use it after it hasn't rained for a while (lol, as if that would ever happen here....)

Cold Tap water will be safer than hot, but if you have fairly old lead pipes or very new copper pipes, don't use it at all. Buy RO water from the LFS or try rain water (depending on how polluted your air is and how often it rains)

 

[OldMan47]

Something has caused the ammonia spike that you are seeing. It could be dead leaves from a plant or as was suggested it could be a dead snail. Any organic matter that is decomposing will cause a rapid rise in ammonia. It could even be something that is in your filter and is decomposing trapped on the filter medium. Another possible source is the water itself. If you have ammonia in your tap water, like I do, it is hard to make it come down with a water change. In my case the tap water runs about 1 ppm so a 25% change means that I have manually raised my tank to 0.25 ppm. Since my tanks are mature, it goes away very quickly but it is there for an hour or two.

 

[Queen Bee]

Just took a look under the kitchen sink. The pipes are copper, how old, I don't know. There is a couple of green spots on the copper (The only reason I know it is copper) Otherwise look pretty decent. Don't know about the hot water tank. I am in a basement apartment. Water tank is on their side of the basement and their english is hard to understand at the best of times. House itself is about 15 yrs old I would guess. I know the owner made the basement apartment his self. Lord only knows what is behind the drywall.

I did clean the tank 3 or 4 times since the snail died. Lost count now. I've changed so much water lately. The ammonia spike was maybe 14 hours after I last checked it. The tank ran empty for a couple of days.

I've never put any live plants in the water. Only ever had fake ones. The sponge on the filter does have some gunk stuck to it. There is also white stringy stuff at the bottom of the spot where the sponge goes. The other filter sponge (air sponge filter) was filthy. Covered with the same white stringy stuff. I rinse it out and no matter how much I squeezed it, whitish brown cloudy stuff kept coming out. The filter keeps getting stringy white stuff caught in the (don't know the name) tubes that go down from the filter to bring the water up through the filter. I thought I had cleaned all that stuff out.

The dwarf gourami really make me wonder that something else in going on. They were only in the tank for 3 hours. I chose them carefully and looked great at the lfs. After I moved them to holding tanks (unfortunately neither cycled) Both in separate tanks I noticed that one of them had a white film over both eyes. One eye was considerably worse than the other with a white stringy attachment. He also had little air bubbles stuck to him. He almost looked like he had a fine white film covering the top head portion of the fish. This one was barely alive when I pulled him. I thought he was dead and so moved the other one first.

Since being moved, they are a little more active and not staying at the top of the water. They are swimming around. Not really overly active but some movement. The eyes of the one fish don't appear to be as bad. Hard to tell for sure. not in the best container to observe them from different angles.

 

[Queen Bee]

As of this morning, the Gourami which appeared worse off hasn't made it. The other one appears fine and is swimming around.

 

[golden girl]

I've just lost my 2nd tank full of fish in 5 days!!

This one is a 29 gallon with total 10 fish. Guppies, platys, swordtails, dwarf gourami and a snail.

I've done the same water changes as I have for the last 2 months. Filter and air sponge filter working properly, and not clogged. Heater is constant at 24. Tank has been running for 5 - 6 weeks.

I do a weekly water change of 25%. I use water conditioner all the time, once in a while I use waste control. I didn't use the waste control this time.

Readings are nitrate, nitrite at 0. Ammonia is between 0 & .25. Ph is at 6. (My tap water reads 7ph)

2 days previous, one of the platy was hiding in plants (All fake plants) and not coming out. Thought maybe having fry.

Yesterday at 10:30am I did water change as usual and shortly after I noticed all the fish hanging out at the surface of the water all together facing the same direction. This was really weird, my fish never did that before. I kept an eye and they did that all day. No panting or gulping at the surface. Just motionless.

Around 10:00 pm the snail died and was floating at the top. I removed it and checked the ammonia again. Read slightly darker than 0, but not dark enough for .25.

Around 11:00 pm some of the fish would venture to the bottom of tank and swim around, then dart back to the surface. Still floating peaceful at the top. I did notice that the top of the water in the tank was retaining bubbles. There is also a thin line of bubbles around the sides of the tank at the top. I took a bucket and skimmed the top of the water and removed it.

10:00 am this morning all fish dead. No bad foul smell. Fish have started to grow the white film on them.

No new fish have been added for 3 weeks. Buckets are only for fish, and never have had soap in them. The only thing I changed this time, I added 2 capful of water conditioner instead of 3.

Bottle calls for 1/2 capful per bucket. After testing it I discovered that I still had ammonia readings. I uped it to 3 capfuls to get rid of ammonia reading. Been doing this for a month now and since that, noticed that ph dropped from 8 to barely 6. That is why I cut it to 2 capfuls instead.

Any idea of what happened here? In total shock and really pretty sad right now!

there could be many reasons for your weird encounter...

1. you should not only be watching the ammonia levels - there are nitrite and nitrate levels too : ammonia turns into nitrite into nitrate which could kill fish.
if all fish are hiding at a certain level in the tank this means that there is something wrong in the other levels.

2. if you did not go through the correct procedure for putting your fish in its new home this could also force stress on the fish?

3. stress is a major cause of death in fish, putting fish in with other fish which it does not get on with, can cause stress.

4. before buying your fish you should, research them and check if they are in good contition.

5. putting all of your fish in the tank at the same time - which they poo - this will build up the bad bacteria levels in your tank. therefore putting hardy fish into the tank first will let the filter develope good bacteria and learn to cope with more bad bacteria- fish poo / amonia.

6. also to help the amonia live plants help balance the level as well as providing air for the fish.

I hope my advice helps!!!

 

[golden girl]

I've just lost my 2nd tank full of fish in 5 days!!

This one is a 29 gallon with total 10 fish. Guppies, platys, swordtails, dwarf gourami and a snail.

I've done the same water changes as I have for the last 2 months. Filter and air sponge filter working properly, and not clogged. Heater is constant at 24. Tank has been running for 5 - 6 weeks.

I do a weekly water change of 25%. I use water conditioner all the time, once in a while I use waste control. I didn't use the waste control this time.

Readings are nitrate, nitrite at 0. Ammonia is between 0 & .25. Ph is at 6. (My tap water reads 7ph)

2 days previous, one of the platy was hiding in plants (All fake plants) and not coming out. Thought maybe having fry.

Yesterday at 10:30am I did water change as usual and shortly after I noticed all the fish hanging out at the surface of the water all together facing the same direction. This was really weird, my fish never did that before. I kept an eye and they did that all day. No panting or gulping at the surface. Just motionless.

Around 10:00 pm the snail died and was floating at the top. I removed it and checked the ammonia again. Read slightly darker than 0, but not dark enough for .25.

Around 11:00 pm some of the fish would venture to the bottom of tank and swim around, then dart back to the surface. Still floating peaceful at the top. I did notice that the top of the water in the tank was retaining bubbles. There is also a thin line of bubbles around the sides of the tank at the top. I took a bucket and skimmed the top of the water and removed it.

10:00 am this morning all fish dead. No bad foul smell. Fish have started to grow the white film on them.

No new fish have been added for 3 weeks. Buckets are only for fish, and never have had soap in them. The only thing I changed this time, I added 2 capful of water conditioner instead of 3.

Bottle calls for 1/2 capful per bucket. After testing it I discovered that I still had ammonia readings. I uped it to 3 capfuls to get rid of ammonia reading. Been doing this for a month now and since that, noticed that ph dropped from 8 to barely 6. That is why I cut it to 2 capfuls instead.

Any idea of what happened here? In total shock and really pretty sad right now!

there could be many reasons for your weird encounter...

1. you should not only be watching the ammonia levels - there are nitrite and nitrate levels too : ammonia turns into nitrite into nitrate which could kill fish.
if all fish are hiding at a certain level in the tank this means that there is something wrong in the other levels.

2. if you did not go through the correct procedure for putting your fish in its new home this could also force stress on the fish?

3. stress is a major cause of death in fish, putting fish in with other fish which it does not get on with, can cause stress.

4. before buying your fish you should, research them and check if they are in good contition.

5. putting all of your fish in the tank at the same time - which they poo - this will build up the bad bacteria levels in your tank. therefore putting hardy fish into the tank first will let the filter develope good bacteria and learn to cope with more bad bacteria- fish poo / amonia.

6. also to help the amonia live plants help balance the level as well as providing air for the fish.

I hope my advice helps!!!

 

[rabbut]

You could also use liquid ammonia to fishless cycle the tank ready for fish, rather than adding "hardy fish" that 9 times out of 10 will die during the process, and if they are unlucky enough to survive, they will be permenantly damaged by the ammonia poisoning that the fishkeeper intentionally put them through, leaving them with respiritory problems for life. All other points Golden Girls makes are good, and the stress being the number one killer of fish is definately a big one. Something isn't right with the tank as you say. At this point, if the water source isn't the issue and you are still cycled, I'd sterilise the tank, replacing the filter media at the same time.

To sterilise use about 1 cap of clorine based bleach to every 20-50l of water, and run the equipment with the bleach in the water for about 1/2 an hour. Now drain and rince. Finally, remove the old filter media and fill, adding a tripple dose of dechlorinator to remove any remaining bleach (this is why it is important that it is chlorine based bleach) before draining, adding the new filter media and fill again ready for cycling. Fishless cycle using liquid ammonia, as per the fishless cycling thread pinned at the top of this sub-forum and then get your replacement fish Adding mature media from a mature tank will speed the cycle, but never take more than 1/3 of the mature media at any one time, or you will put the mature tank into a mini-cycle. Mature media will cut a 4-6week fishless cycle down to a few days at most

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Queen Bee]

Thanks for the how to tear down and sterilize a tank. At this point, I think that is the best way for me to go. I've been lying awake trying to think of anything I may have over looked while tending to the fish. I can get some filter media from my boyfriend. His tank is about 2 months old and he is not even close to his stocking level. One problem may be that a few weeks ago he had to treat the entire tank for ick. Maybe I'll suck it up and wait the 4-6 weeks to cycle.

One of the dwarf gourami is doing fine. I am keeping an eye, he was in the tank with the fish that died. Right now he is housed in a 2 1/2 Gallon that is brand new. Unfortunately that is all I have at the moment for him.

Going to tear tank down now and start over. Thanks everyone for the advice and helpful hints. This will surely help me avoid a 3rd total tank loss.

 

[Queen Bee]

As of this morning, the Gourami which appeared worse off hasn't made it. The other one appears fine and is swimming around.

Well, the fish I thought was dead isn't. Had to go to a funeral yesterday, (was running late) and left the "dead" gourami in the bucket to deal with later. I pulled the air hose out. this morning, I saw him breathing floating up and down. Eye looks cleared up. Water is filthy with white long things floating through it. I put air hose back in and a few minutes later when I tried to remove it, he chased it around with so much energy. So happy I didn't flush him yesterday.

The other gourami is doing fine. Looks good.

The 10 gallon which I cleaned and used some water from the 29 Gallon (this happened before it crashed) has 1 swordtail which now has a white cotton growth all over it.

 

[snakequeen]

Hi there
I had this problem a while back.
I had got home from work and all my fish were all lined up at the back of my tank, not moving, right at the top.
It was really weird.
Cut a long story short it was a lack of oxygen in my tank and as soon as i added an airstone they livened up and ive not lost a fish since
Dunno if this will help at all
Eve

 

[Queen Bee]

Just returned from lfs. Apparently I am 4th person in couple of days to have gone in with the same problems. Took pictures with me and talked to the guy explaining everything from initial 1st tank loss.

I think I did cause a bacteria bloom by moving one of the ornaments and stirring up a months worth of decay. That is problem #1

Problem #2

When I was adding the tap water to the bucket to do the water change I made one big and fatal error. I added the water conditioner to the bucket first, then poured in the water. I thought it would mix up the conditioner better. WRONG!!!!!

The water conditioner reacts immediately to the new water. So by the time my bucket was 1/3 full, the conditioner was no longer working and the remaining 2/3 of the water was pure tap water. The water conditioner needs to be added after the tap water is in the bucket in order to dechlorinate all the water. The chlorine in the water I was using to change the tank was eating away at the slime coating of the fish. That's what the white stringy stuff is that has been floating through the tank.

This makes so much sense since both tank losses were after the water change.

Problem # 3

I am not using activated carbon in my filter. Sponges only. I received an e-mail from the water supplier and there is aluminum sulphate and chloramine in the water. Not too good for fish.

In the end, I have learned from my mistakes, and will not do that again. One question still. Slime coating . Anything I can do to help a fish get it back? I have one dwarf gourami clinging to life. His slime coat is almost completely gone by the amount of it floating around his bucket. (Yes, emergency move, had nothing else). Everytime I think he is dead, he springs to life and proves me wrong.

 

[rabbut]

Probem # 4 You belived the LFS. If you are the fourth person to go in with issues this week, the fault is at their end, not yours, and they were trying to shift blame onto you to avoid having to give a refund. Unfortunately, most LFS staff are told by their bosses to do this, and it often works. Now to show you what the issues are with their list of "problems"

Just returned from lfs. Apparently I am 4th person in couple of days to have gone in with the same problems. Took pictures with me and talked to the guy explaining everything from initial 1st tank loss.

I think I did cause a bacteria bloom by moving one of the ornaments and stirring up a months worth of decay. That is problem #1

Though possible, I think it unlikely.

Problem #2

When I was adding the tap water to the bucket to do the water change I made one big and fatal error. I added the water conditioner to the bucket first, then poured in the water. I thought it would mix up the conditioner better. WRONG!!!!!

The water conditioner reacts immediately to the new water. So by the time my bucket was 1/3 full, the conditioner was no longer working and the remaining 2/3 of the water was pure tap water. The water conditioner needs to be added after the tap water is in the bucket in order to dechlorinate all the water. The chlorine in the water I was using to change the tank was eating away at the slime coating of the fish. That's what the white stringy stuff is that has been floating through the tank.

This makes so much sense since both tank losses were after the water change.

Utter rubbish. Dechlorinator works by a chemical reaction, and runs untill all the chlorine/chloramine or all the water conditioner has bonded with the other. It will continue to run untill the reaction runs out of either chemical. If dechlorinator is left after the reaction, it will continue to dechlorinate any new tapwater added, be it 5 mins after dosing or a few years after. If dechlorinator is left, it can still do it's job. Time to mix has nothing to do with it

When I waterchange, I add dechlorinator to my tank and then re-fill from the hose. May on here do this without a problem. According to your LFS, doing this wuld have led to many a tank wipe-out.

Problem # 3

I am not using activated carbon in my filter. Sponges only. I received an e-mail from the water supplier and there is aluminum sulphate and chloramine in the water. Not too good for fish.

I don't use Activated carbon either. I keep discus that have a reputation for being a royal PITA to keep (even though they aren't that hard if you research. They are hard as they need impecable water quality, and many don't realise that before purchase, instead finding out the hard way ). If something was wrong with my water, they would keil. *glances at tank* Yup, still alive, so activated carbon isn't needed Carbon is a good income source for LFS's, and they'd love it if you went in regularly to buy more, but after a few days, it's all used up and useless. They are trying to get you to give the bosses of the shop a bigger pay check this month Aluminium sulphate will likely be in many water sources, so that I would not worry about either IMO. Also, as good water conditioner would nutralise these heay-metals for you.

In the end, I have learned from my mistakes, and will not do that again. One question still. Slime coating . Anything I can do to help a fish get it back? I have one dwarf gourami clinging to life. His slime coat is almost completely gone by the amount of it floating around his bucket. (Yes, emergency move, had nothing else). Everytime I think he is dead, he springs to life and proves me wrong.

Slime coat is produced naturally by the fish and does not need encuragement. The fact the slime coat is comming off, tells me the fish is producing too much rather than having it stripped off. This tells me disease is at work, fitting well with why the LFS has had issues with some customers this week. The diseases that caurse excess slime can vary from bacteria to parasitic. If your waterstats were fine, it is disease. I'd dose with Waterlife Myxazin, as it will get most issues, being very broad spectrum

Your problem is poor LFS advise and disease introduced from the aforementioned LFS. None of this is your fault, it's just the LFS wants you to think that and admit it, because, if you do admit it is, you can't ask for a refund. I'd personally go back and ask to speak to the manager (politely, so you can still possibly get a refund) to get the issue properly sorted out. Please go in there armed with research though, so they can't fob you off again

HTH
Rabbut