10gal Tank Started 7th June 08 & Cycling With 6 Cardinals

[Lazerus]

Complete beginner here with some questions…

21 days ago I set up a new small tropical fish tank….its a Fluval Uno 500 ...a 8.2 UK gal / 37.5 litre tank.

I set up the tank with the Fluval Plus 1 biological filter and an Elite 50w heater in de-chlorinated water using Nutrafin Aqua+ and let it run fishless for about 10 days & used ‘Nutrafin Cycle’ to introduce the beneficial bacteria. I used aquarium gravel, and there is plenty of (plastic) foliage and hidey places. I washed everything well before going into the tank.

(Thats my tank there in my Avator to give you an idea)
Edited to add a bigger picture....

Then I bought three sprightly Cardinal tetras and introduced them to the tank, and after another four days of them doing well, I added another three Cardinal tetras, making 6 Cardinal tetras in total. They are doing well so far.

(Actually, I’m a bit concerned that one is not as active as the other five and hides away all the time on his own, swimming in the one spot at the bottom… I’m monitoring the little fella closely just in case)

Anyway, it was only afterwards after reading up about Cardinal Tetras that I realised I was not told by my pet shop that Cardinal tetras are not the best fish to introduce to a new tank, and I should have gone for a hardier species of fish first.

However, they are there now, so that’s that. I live and learn – I’ll always do my research first before purchasing the wrong type of fish again.

So, my PH is 7.8 and is not ideal for Cardinals (it should be 6.0 or so) and so I might possibly need to deal with that problem with a bit of bog wood or peat. But from reading up, it’s not advisable to mess with the PH until the tank is definitely cycled otherwise it could be counter productive on the fish. In fact some sites say don't meddle with the PH at at all as an unstable PH is far worse than a stable PH, even if it is a high one.

Any thoughts on this?

So, what I really need to know is...

Is my tank fully cycled now?

After 6 small fish being in my tank for 11 days, shouldn’t I be seeing my Ammonia or Nitrite levels rising by now?

The daily water test results show 0 for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate continuously since the fish were introduced ….or I’m wondering is it too early yet to see any spikes?

Or maybe the fish are too small to make any impact on the tank? Do I need to add more?

I feed them a tiny amount once daily in the morning and I’m doing small water changes every three days or so. But maybe these frequent water changes are not necessary now, and perhaps weekly water changes are sufficient to get proper readings?

Presuming the tank is cycled, shouldn’t I be seeing my Nitrate levels rising, if this is case?

Also….should I be doing something about that one little fish that is not behaving like the others? What can I do to help him out?

And finally…. When things are up and running ok, I’m thinking of adding either two Mickey mouse Platies or two Male Guppy’s (can’t decide yet) and one Albino Cory to complete the tank.

Does this sound ok?

Is this too many fish for my small tank? I thought it might be ok, but I don’t want to over stock either.

Ok…sorry about the really long post....I cleary am a complete novice!

Many thanks in advance!

 

[kris1978]

ammonia and nitrite levels should be at 0 anyway as this will harm the fish, it sounds like your tank is still in its cycle, have you checked the ph of your tap water?
that could be the reason for the high ph, your doing the right thing by doing water changes frequent so theres not much more you can do, try and get the ph to about 7 if you can and everything should be fine you havent overstoked your tank and i would get the ph to about 7 ish before adding your plattys.
hope this helps and i hope your fish makes it ok.


kris

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi there, don't worry about the long post, you should read some of mine!!

now speaking of reading, you should read up a bit on cycling with fish, this is the process you're going through, read the link in my sig 'whats cycling' which should explain more.

What test kit are you using? you mentioned daily water changes but haven't said how many you are doing or how much water you are changing, are you testing before or after changing the water?

6 small cardinals being fed sparingly is not going to create a huge amount of ammonia so it could be that the water changes are simply dealing with it so you're not seeing any, it could also be dodgy test readings. when you answer the questions above we'll know more.

you don't want to put 1 cory in there, they need to be in groups and you haven't room for a group of the normal sized cories, you could consider a trio of pgymy cories though although you would need to wait until the tank is mature (6 months old) before adding them.

you've not room for a whole lot more in there tbh, i would either go with the trio of cories or a couple of livebearers. not both. either way leave it until the tank is cycled, do some research and then make a decision a little bit down the line.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi again…thanks so much for the replies…

Kris…yes, its 7.8 out of the tap…so I'm very hesitant about meddling with PH as I don't really know what I'm doing just yet.

Miss Wiggle….Yes, I’ve read up a bit about the cycling process…and I’m trying to understand it all as best I can…I’m sure all will become clearer the more I read. I was just becoming a bit perplexed when I wasn’t seeing any ammonia or nitrite in the first few days, which I thought was to be expected when you add your fish for the first time?

Hmmm….more studying to be done there and asking of questions.

Ok, aside from that, I’m using the API freshwater Master test kit. I’ve been doing the tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Higher PH in the morning time daily for the past 11 days (since I added the fish) before the light goes on and well before the fish are fed. Its always been at 0 and the PH is always at 7.8.

The water changes I do are about 6-8 litres every three days. So I guess that’s about a 10-15% water change.

Yes, there is a lot of consideration in deciding what to stock the tank with, as it’s quite small. I may even leave it with just the Cardinal tetras…maybe add a few more and that would be it.

I’m not going to buy any more fish for another couple of weeks and I’m enjoying this time looking up and studying about certain compatible fish and stuff…so I will hopefully have a well thought out plan by the time I darken the door of another pet shop!

Oh and by the way…my ‘poorly’ fish is up and about and flying around the tank with the other five…perhaps he was just tired? He nearly created a minor tidal wave darting for the food! I guess he’s alright so?

Thanks so far!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

when are you doing the water changes, yes your right you should expect to see ammonia or nitrite rise, but it could be that becuase of the water changes you're keeping it below the level which is detectable.

it could be some kind of miracle and cycle actually worked (although i doubt it) or it could be a faulty test kit.

we'll need to do a few tests to see. firstly take a sample of water to the fish shop for testing to confirm/deny your readings, this should rule out a faulty test kit.

i would stop doing water changes for the minute, test the water every day (twice daily if you can) and see what happens, if ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 then it's safe so no panic over no water changes, if they start to rise then you know it was just water changes keeping them undetectable and that you just need to do water changes whenever you see any ammonia or nitrite.

 

[Lazerus]

when are you doing the water changes, yes your right you should expect to see ammonia or nitrite rise, but it could be that becuase of the water changes you're keeping it below the level which is detectable.

it could be some kind of miracle and cycle actually worked (although i doubt it) or it could be a faulty test kit.

we'll need to do a few tests to see. firstly take a sample of water to the fish shop for testing to confirm/deny your readings, this should rule out a faulty test kit.

i would stop doing water changes for the minute, test the water every day (twice daily if you can) and see what happens, if ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 then it's safe so no panic over no water changes, if they start to rise then you know it was just water changes keeping them undetectable and that you just need to do water changes whenever you see any ammonia or nitrite.

That’s a good Idea to do a 'control' sample at the pet shop....I won't be able to do one over the next few days, but maybe next week I'll be able to pop in...Its not exactly a 'local' pet shop, you see so I'd have to be up their way.

In the mean time, I'm assuming that the test kit is working okay though as the majority of the fish are bright, alert, shoaling and are eating well (I'm still watching that little fella, just in case)....but after 11 days in dodgy/toxic water I can only imagine they wouldn't be as happy? Or maybe it would take longer than 11 days for them to fall ill or stressed?

So, I'll stop doing the water changes for the minute and test twice daily from tomorrow and see how I go just to see if the tests change in any way. If they don't I know there's definitely something up with the kit.

But I will try to arrange a trip to the pet shop as soon as I can with a bit of water.

Thanks...I'll be back and let you know how I get on!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well if your water changes were sucessful enough in controlling the toxins then the fish could potentially still be fine after 11 days.

don't stop doing water changes until you've got a second opinion on the test kit, because if your test kit is dodgy and you then think the water is fine so don't do water changes you could be building up trouble for the fish. first step, keep things as they are but get the lfs to test some water shortly, if their readings are the same as yours then stop doing water changes and do some monitoring.

 

[Lazerus]

Ah right...of course! Yes, that makes sense!

Ok....as soon as I get a chance I'll drop into the pet shop and won't make any changes to my routine untill then. I'll watch the fish very closely also for any signs of distress or oddness.

Coola, bula!

Talk soon.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Lazerus and MW,

Such an interesting intro to read for this case - almost seems like the most perfect result possible for someone having not known about fishless cycling! Six cards in a 10G must have had just enough water to go 3 days before another 15% water change.

Although 21 days puts this in the realm of possibility for being cycled, my guess would be that the filter is perhaps not cycled yet and its just that the water change every 3 days is turning out to be enough to accomplish a correct fish-in cycle.

I add my agreement that once the fish store test (and you should get them to tell you numbers, not just "fine") seems to confirm that the API kit is functioning correctly, then it would be a good test to do as MW says and hold off on the water change to see if any ammonia or nitrite becomes visible. The result of that to be watched for would be that if, for example you stop water changing and on the 4th or 5th day some ammonia or nitrite starts to appear in the tests, then you would know you are probably not fully cycled yet and you would need to return to the water changes quickly to hold down on the gill damage. If, however, 5 or 6 days go by with tests still showing zero, then do a (weekend for example) 20% or so water change and again watch the test results for a week and see if either of the poisons show up. Its important that you not get fooled into thinking the filter is cycled before it really is just because the 6 cardinals in their nice big 10G are having their waste diluted a lot.

Will be a pretty interesting tale to keep watching, and btw, welcome to tff!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks for the welcome Waterdrop!!

So…I did another test this morning....still the same results 0 on Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate....PH still at 7.8.

I haven't done a water change since Wednesday afternoon....so I was secretly hoping to see some change in my results...it just seems strange.

Hmm, maybe it is a dodgy test kit alright?

I checked to see if there was an expiry date on the box or bottles somewhere, but I couldn’t see anything.

Perhaps six little tetras are simply too small to make any major changes to the water for the tests to pick up the reading?

I’m anxious to get this water tested in the shop…I may even take a trip to day if I can.

So...I've one other question…..and it’s about a weird substance growing on my Elite Heater.

There seems to be some sort of ‘growth’ growing on the rubber suckers and around the seal…it’s a clear, jellylike substance, I suppose it could be a fungus of some sort….and the substance grows gradually bigger every day until it starts to get too heavy, separates from the rubber and looks like it could fall off into the tank.

I cleaned it all off the other day before it fell off as it looks unsightly, but I see there is more starting to grow again. Its only growing there…no where else in the tank.

What is this substance…is it safe?

 

[chesterscot]

i get blobs of jelly in my tank but there just snail eggs not sure what your growth is though hopefully someone else can help you with this one m8y welcome by the way and good luck
scot

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Chesterscot....Gosh! Snails eggs?? No... I can't imagine it would be that as I have no 'natural' decorations such as plants or wood etc, so where would they have come from?

Plus it just seems strange that it only happens on the rubber suckers & rubber seal of the heater...no where else? It has to be a 'growth' of some sort. Hmmm....I can't seem to find anything about it on the web either.

Ok....so, I'm just back from the pet shop and they tested my water.....

They have confirmed that my test kit is ok as their results were the exact same as my own. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and PH 7.8....she didn't test the nitrate though...

So, she suggested, like yourselves, to stop doing any water changes for the time being and check daily to see if there is any changing results. So that is what I'll do. As I say, it was Wednesday last that I did a small water change so I’m three days into it now....I should see some results soon, if there is going to be any.

Also, while I was there I had a look at some of her tanks....she didn't have a great selection but I saw some little blue Dwarf Gouramis...they were lovely....but would they suit my little tank?

I read that they are middle to upper level swimmers and placid so that would be perfect, but I also read that they are difficult to keep though? I am an amateur after all…maybe I shouldn't chance it.

Can I put two males in together or would they fight? Or would a male & female be a better option?



What do ye think?

 

[tenohfive]

Some background around dwarves:

Very sickly fish, they may survive in a mature aquarium with good water quality etc, but theres no guarantees.

As for peaceful and placid...that largely depends upon the fish. Certainly don't put two males in together, ones likely to get bullied to death. As for females, the recommended ratio is 1 male to 2 females. If you've got the room the 2 females, what I'd recommend you do is add the male and see how he gets on-if he's not causing any problems with your other fish, I'd leave him be. If he is getting aggressive then I'd add two females then.

 

[Lazerus]

Another day....no water change for 4 days now...Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0....and fish are looking exceptionally happy today, even my 'dodgy' lad seems to be over his minor bout of shyness. So they are 14 days in the tank now.

It’s all looking good so far anyway?.

Thanks Tenohive...yes, that rings a bell alright...I had read that Dwarf Gouramis were 'sickly' fish. Hmmm, I am up for a challenge though.

If the water quality was always good (which the Cardinals tetras especially require also) then, shouldn't the Gouramis do okay also? They seem to be a good match for my Cardinal tetras.

I might chance them….although, I did also read that they are ‘skittish’ when it comes to loud noise…that may be a problem in my house with two little munchkins under 5 roaring & stamping about the place.

Also, not sure if I've the space for three dwarf gouramis in my tank....or maybe I do? (Its a Fluval Uno 500 - 37.5 litre/ 8.5 UK gal)

I would need floating plants too to make them happy....and I'm scared to introduce 'live' plants into my tank.

Hmmm, I'll have a think about it.

 

[tenohfive]

If the water quality was always good (which the Cardinals tetras especially require also) then, shouldn't the Gouramis do okay also? They seem to be a good match for my Cardinal tetras.

My understanding is that its not just about water quality (though I daresay good water quality will help), its to do with a virus that is unavoidable and untreatable.
I'll be honest, I intend to get some dwarves myself sometime after payday - I've had people warn me about their problems but the way I see it is that if I can introduce them to a tank with decent water quality, look after them to the best of my ability and they die - then it was going to happen regardless.

I've had my heart set on them for a long time though. As for live plants, get some Java Fern and then a smallish floating plant, enough to give it the option to bubble nest. Java Fern is expensive (about £10 for 3 plants at my LFS) but worth it, and seems very hardy. And it does look good.