10gal Tank Started 7th June 08 & Cycling With 6 Cardinals

[Miss Wiggle]

Nitrates are much less harmful than ammonia or nitrite so it's fine to have some, ideally it'd always be 0 but this is very rarely possible. Having them at 0 will do no harm to the fish, they don't need them, however nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle, if you've got 0 nitrate it's often a warning sign that the tank isn't cycled.

Well, Miss Wiggle,

I'd be really delighted if it was because I could add another two fish this week confidently. But I'll leave it another few days and see what the story is. I'll keep testing daily as before just to make sure.

thats sensible, if you can bear it then leave it a week or so until we're sure whats gone on.

I forgot to add in my introduction, that when I did the 10 day fishless cycle at the very beginning, I added Nutrafin tropical fish food into the tank and let it rot...perhaps that helped the cycle process along. I'd read it somewhere that adding fish food 'feeds' the bacteria not just the fish. So that’s what I did. It was really hit and miss for me!!

now that could make a serious difference to things, the fish food will certainly have kicked the cycle off even if they haven't completed it. Were you testing for the week or so before adding fish where you put the fish food in? what are your results for this period.

I only feed them once a day, I was wondering perhaps I should increase that to twice daily? Scared of over feeding though. But I'm also anxious that they might be hungry too!

once a day is fine

Now, another thing I've observed today is that my biggest fish who I named Lazerus (as he came back from the dead after traveling badly in the bag on the way home - he was floating upside down & I thought he was totally done for!)

Anyway, he sprung back to life when I added the water from my own tank into the bag, and now he is the healthiest looking, biggest fish amongst the other five, but he appears to have an increasingly large belly. Surely he's/she's carrying eggs!!!!! That would be just too mad altogether?

He so round this morning, I really noticed it...the others compared to him/her are slim and long and smaller in size. I'm thinking its not the case though, as from reading up they need a much lower ph & darker tanks conditions to even contemplate breeding.

Maybe he's just a more mature fish and has a mature body shape. I must go and look up some photos and see if I can see anything similar to what I'm seeing.

i'm not desperatley up on tetra breeding, but i agree it's unlikley, have you googled the difference between males and females, i believe the females have rounder bellies naturally.....

I tell ye this fish keeping is very exciting altogether! Ha,ha! It’s a daily challenge, but very enjoyable! I can see how people are totally hooked!

lol, yup, definatley hooked......... it does get easier though!

 

[Lazerus]

Hi again...posting at the same time and there is two more posts .

Yes, Bblou & Miss Wiggle, about the nitrate, that was my original query…. that if the tank was cycled then why am I not I seeing some nitrate activity?

I wish the girl at the pet shop had tested the Nitrate too now….I suppose I’d better go back again…I’ll go to a different shop though. There’s another one about 20 miles away… I believe they have better stock too...its called Petstop superstore.

I'm using the Fluval 1 plus filter....fairly bog standard from what I hear...nothing spectacular about it at all. It came with the Fluval Uno 500 pack along with the Elite 50w heater and Nutrafin water treatments. Everything was brand new.

I've nothing 'natural' in the tank bar the fish...its all plastic decor & resin log and a resin barrel.

The gravel I used is called ‘Aqua-colisa’ Calstone and I bought it from the pet shop as it said on the bag it could be used for aquariums or terrainiums for lizards or tarantulas etc

Also, I’ve already mentioned about the weird jelly-like stuff growing on the heater…I wonder could this be aiding the cycle along?

Well, does this shed any light at all?

 

[Bblou]

maybe just your nitrate test is dodgy?

 

[Lazerus]

Hi again....can't keep up with ye!! ha,ha!!

Oh no! I hope he's not going to die , he looks so healthy I could hardly believe it! ..I'll keep a close eye on Lazerus! ....sorry to hear about your guppy thougy, Bblou.

No, Miss Wiggle, unforunately, I didn't test the water during the 10 day fishless cycle...thats a pity. I only started it the day after I bought the first 3 fish.

Here's a pic of the tank by the way. As you can see, it is quite small...the cardinals are hiding away because I'm standing there.

Maybe you might see something that I'm not?

Do I need any more plants/foliage in your opinion?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't know what the jelly stuff is but it's normal, i've had it grow on rubber suckers before.

shame you haven't got test results for those 10 days, I really think we'd have an 'aaaah there goes that penny' moment if we saw them, now we know that you had added some fish food and there were 3 days with fish in before testing, it'd be bloody quick but it is definatley possible that the tank cycled in this time.

check that the one that looks fat is not 'pineconing' (if you google image search you'll see some examples, it's when the scales all stick out and they look like a pinecone.

only thing i would suggest is to put a background on the tank, fish feel mroe secure with one on.

 

[Lazerus]

Ha,ha...Just laughing here ...this is the pic I got when I googled pineconing fish....

Nope...my fish definately doesn't look like that!! ha,ha!!

But seriously though,yes, I get the idea of what I'm looking out for...and no, the fat Cardinals fish's scales are definitely not pineconing. His scales are flat and shimmering. In fact, to be honest...I do think that this fish is a full adult and the others are possibly still young, and thats why there is a significant difference.

The others colouring still has to develop I feel....their red stripes are blotchy towards the nose and so not fully coloured in with the red, where as this particular fish has full colour and looks like a fine specimen.

So, a background on the tank….hmm, yes, I suppose I can do that. I might just put a bit of cardboard up for the time being until I have a look and see what they have in the shop. I believe a dark background can bring out their colours more too.

Ok….can’t believe I’ve spent all morning on line!!!! I haven’t done a thing! I seem to be developing an addiction to this site.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i always think a plain black or blue background brings out the colours of the fish best

 

[Lazerus]

i always think a plain black or blue background brings out the colours of the fish best

I've put some of the kids dark blue gift wrap paper behind the tank for the moment....only thing is its has colourful stars on it too. I hope the fish don't mind to much!!

It'll do them for the time being.

Edited to add: Did another test there...here it is...and this is a good few hours after a feed this morning etc. Still no change. I was really hoping to see the nitrate up a bit.

You know I might head out now and go to another fish shop and get a water test done. I'm like a dog with a bone here now!

 

[Lazerus]

Ok...I'm just back from a different fish shop...I looked one up the phonebook and my nearest on was called 'AquaWorld' which sounded very promising! And it was!

So, they tested my water and yet again, they confirmed my results about the Ammonia and Nitrite. They were both still at 0. Unfortunately, they had just run out of Nitrate tester…couldn’t believe it!!! Gah!

But at least it still confirmed that there are no Ammonia or Nitrite toxins in the tank. He also tested my PH and confirmed it was 7.8. So based on this I have to assume my test kit is not malfunctioning

I’m still eager to get my nitrates tested though just in case it’s a very slim chance that the Nitrate tester is faulty ( I don't really believe that now though)… but he said for such small amounts of fish that I wouldn’t be seeing any huge amounts of Nitrate at the moment anyway. Its a very new tank & I don’t have any algae in the tank to indicate Nitrate presence etc.

He said it would be safe to add more fish now.

I may go back on Friday again with some more water anyway and get the nitrate tested to be sure, as he said he was getting 6 new Bettas (Blue & Red) in which I’m very interested in seeing, as well as some other new fish stock.

By Friday I might be ready to add another fish or two perhaps all still going well

Anyway, while I was there I looked at the rows and rows of beautiful fishes! I felt my blood racing with excitement. What has come over me!!???

But I’m even more confused now on what to get. Too much choice.

Once again I was attracted to the Gourami….the shop had a huge beautiful tank of loads and loads of various varieties, and he pointed out two little red/peachy gouramis that he would be ideal for my tank…they were gorgeous. Don’t know what they were called. (Edited to say...just looked them up...they be might called 'Honey gourami' or 'Flame gourami'...not sure which.

Also, he pointed out Moonlight gourami (I think they were called that)

He said he was getting some Pearl Gouramis in on Friday which he said would also suit my tank.

Also...He said in his opinion Gouramis were easier to care for than Cardinals. So now! That was a surprise!

Loved the Tiger barbs also…but not suitable for my tank as they are aggressive with little fish. He had cherry barbs and gold barbs too. Just lovely.

Saw the pygmy cories…bronze, green and albino…hmmm, not sure about them now. I think I want something more colourful.

Also saw other possibilities for my little tank such as various fancy tailed guppies, Mickey mouse & Sunburst platies, Red eye tetras, Congo tetras, Zebra danio, Rasbora, various Mollies, Swordtails, dwarf parrot fish, the list is endless. I can't even remember half of them.

There was even cute tiny albino frogs and stripy frogs. I'm contemplating them now also as my kids would simply love them!

Anyway, I've lots of time to dream about what to get. I can't wait to go back on Friday.

I bought a small piece of Mopani wood while I was there on his advice – he said the Cardinals would really be a lot happier in a lower PH, actually he couldn’t believe my Cardinals were still alive espeically in such a new tank. Hmmm. What can I say? Its nothing I'm doing anyway...they must be just hardier than normal?

So, I’m going to boil the wood a good couple of times in a pot and throw off the water till its clear. Not quite sure when to put it into the tank though? Today? Or should I wait?

I also bought a dark blue plain background for the tank. It’s on now & looks really well. I'm glad I got that.

Oh my god, I’ve just looked at the size of this post …I’d best stop typing now. Just a bit excited, is all.

So any thoughts on when to put the wood in...is it safe to do so this evening? The lad in the shop seemed to think so. But everyones advice here...I thought I'd better cross check with ye and not totally go on what the fish shop says.

Once again....Many many Thanks!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

god that's nearly as bad as one of my posts

Glad that the ammonia and nitrite readings have been confirmed….. again. Don’t stress out too much over nitrate, firstly the man in the shop is right you won’t see a huge amount of nitrate build up with just a few small fish, secondly and more importantly though, all nitrate test kits are dodgy. Results should be taken as indicative at best. There is no good accurate reliable nitrate test kit available to the average home aquarist unfortunately. So if it reads 0, it actually just means ‘none or low’ so it could well be that there is some nitrate but it’s just not enough for the test kit to be picking it up properly.

it probably is safe to add some more fish, but be careful not to overdo it, personally i would wait a week or two to be on the safe side. there's plenty of time and plenty of ncie fish out there so no need to rush.

some of the fish he's mentioned are waaay too big for your tank i'm afraid, you've only got 8 gallons, so 8" of fish total for the tank. you've already got 6" in the cardinals so all you're really looking at is one more fish thats 2/3" long.

pearl gourami's get to 5" so are way too big.

 

[Lazerus]

Another day…

Six full days since I did a water change and the test results are:

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, PH. 7.8 and Nitrate still 0.

Fish look alert and happy….

I inspected all the fish very closely this morning, especially the suspect ‘sick’ fella …there’s no sign of any fin damage, fungus or spotting and no fast gasping or anything…

The sick lad is joining in with the rest of group & his colour is a fraction more vibrant this morning.

I’ll keep watching him.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi..posting at the same time again!! Yeah, I nearly wrote a novel last night, didn't I!

Ah crap!!! So you’re telling me the lad in the shop told me the wrong info! I'll brain him!

Imagine if I’d had no restraint and bought some yesterday!! I would have been gutted!

He was very adamant about the Honey Gourami….he said they wouldn’t grow too big. Was he at least right there?

I’ll proceed will real caution when I’m buying so…I’ll definitely go back to him though cause all the fish in his tanks looked really healthy.

But I’ll take what he says with a pinch of salt.

So, with six cardinal tetras you would recommend just one more 2-3 inch fish? Thats a big enough size.

Hmmm, I don’t know what to add….perhaps just one male Dwarf Gourami then? He would a be a nice centre piece alright and still small.

I thought one Betta might be an option. But maybe he'd get too big? I thought they grew to around 2-3 inches?

Could I even have two Mickey Mouse platies??…you see I was hoping to add three more Cardinals also. I thought 9 cardinal tetras and two bigger fish might be ok? I didn't think it would overload the tank. (When I say bigger I mean about 5cm long at full size.)

Two of those little Frogs even? I haven't read up about them yet.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Ah crap!!! So you’re telling me the lad in the shop told me the wrong info! I'll brain him!

Imagine if I’d had no restraint and bought some yesterday!! I would have been gutted!

lesson no 1 of fishkeeping, the shops are not always right, this is precisley why you should always do your own research.

He was very adamant about the Honey Gourami….he said they wouldn’t grow too big. Was he at least right there?

yes he was, a honey gourami would be right.

I’ll proceed will real caution when I’m buying so…I’ll definitely go back to him though cause all the fish in his tanks looked really healthy.

But I’ll take what he says with a pinch of salt.

thats a sensible approach to take.

So, with six cardinal tetras you would recommend just one more 2-3 inch fish? Thats a big enough size.

Hmmm, I don’t know what to add….perhaps just one male Dwarf Gourami then? He would a be a nice centre piece alright and still small.

yes something like that, perhaps a pair of 2" fish at a push, just be aware you can't fit a whole lot more in there.

I thought one Betta might be an option. But maybe he'd get too big? I thought they grew to around 2-3 inches?

a betta would be a suitable size, but only a female one, mixing a male betta with your cardinals will lead to carnage, the tetra's will nip at his fins, he'll get mad and go on a killing spree. the aren't called fighting fish for no reason.......

Could I even have two Mickey Mouse platies??…you see I was hoping to add three more Cardinals also. I thought 9 cardinal tetras and two bigger fish might be ok? I didn't think it would overload the tank. (When I say bigger I mean about 5cm long at full size.)

that could possibly work. platies are very high waste producers for their size though so i'd stick to 6 cardinals if you do this

Two of those little Frogs even? I haven't read up about them yet.

the ADF's could work, be sure not to get the albino ones though, they are ACF which is a different species, gets much larger and aggressive.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks once again for your input Miss Wiggle...its clearly very much needed!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no probs