Use Current Water Or Start New Cycle, Help?

[xgillian89x]

It's been a while since I've had to cycle a tank as had the same set up for years. Moved house and been looking for a corner tank. I've finally found one that I can afford but now coming to think of it... Cycling it. I currently have a 64 litre tank and the new one is 190 litres, I had originally thought of putting my current water in and gradually topping up but don't know if this would work or if 60 litres would even be enough for fish to live in in a 190 litre tank.. I don't have the room to have both tanks set up and the only way I know how to cycle a tank takes 6-8 weeks.. Can anyone help? Pets at home always say it only takes a week for a tank to be ready for fish but I don't know how that's possible? Any help much appreciated as I pick up the tank tomorrow.

 

[fluttermoth]

You don't really need to worry about moving the water, as long as what's in the two tanks is the same temperature and pH and the nitrates in your current tank aren't too high.

Water and tanks don't cycle; it's the filter media that holds all the bacteria you need. Move all the stuff from inside your current filter into the filter on the bigger tank (cut it up if needs be) and your new tank will be cycled, for the fish you have now.

 

[xgillian89x]

A while ago I moved my frogs from a small tank to a 50 litre, I put 20 litres from the original tank in and used the same filter etc and topped it up with tap water then ended up with ammonia going through the roof so had to take the frogs out and do a 8 week cycle which I don't really want to happen again. I have a fluval 205 I think it is in my 60 litre at the moment so I could still use that with the new tank, and obviously the 60 litres the fish are in at the moment. Are you sure 60 litres + 130 litres of tap water wouldn't do the same again? It's been so long since I did all the complicated stuff I can't really remember most of it lol

 

[Alasse]

Are you using the same substrate and decor? If so give the substrate a light rinse in declorinated water (as the substrate also hold bacteria) before moving it over, as disturbing substrate that has excessive mulm in it can cause an ammonia spike.
 
You dont need the old water at all, infact you will only be adding any build up that is in there (ammonia, nitrate, nitrate etc). Get yourself some Seachem Prime, start adding the 190 litres and add a full cap full, then let it fill. Bring the tank upto temp. Add fluval 205 to the new tank, get it running. If you have a new filter, get it running too. LEave the old one for at least 4 weeks, it will do most of the work while the new filter seeds with bacteria
 
Have fish in a container and slowly add new water to old over about 30 min, then add em into the new tank.
 
You may get a mini cycle. Seachem Prime can help with that

 

[xgillian89x]

I was hoping to get new substrate but I didn't use the old substrate the last time and ended up with the full new cycle starting. Would it work if I rinsed out the gravel I currently have and add new gravel to it? I haven't seen seachem prime before but if I can't get it from the shops I'll see if I can order it online. My current tank is fully planted but I was planning on taking most of the plants away anyway as they're all over grown, there is a bridge in amongst the plants so will be moving that and a couple of smaller plants but if it would help to keep the gravel then I'll keep it. I'm actually scared to start doing this incase it all goes wrong lol

 

[TwoTankAmin]

All of the bacteria is almost never in one's filter/ A lot will be elsewhere. the substrate is a good place to find it.
 
The problem with stirring up the substrate is the gunk gets into the  water. But that gunk is good stuff and if you can move it (especially if live plants are involved). I would not rinse it but I would let the tank run over night with the fish parked elsewhere if you can. I would also move as many of the plants as you can as they are better ammonia eaters than the bacteria and live plants do contribute to makeing a tank safe re cycling issues.
 
I also would not move over the filter if getting a new one. Instead move over all the old bio-media as that is where the bacteria in a filter will be for the most part. The old media should go into the new filter.
 
Lastly, if you can park the fish over night in the current tank sans all but heat and surface agitation or use a Rubbermaid type container similarly, I would do that as suggested above. This will also let you do something else very helpful. Once the new tank is set up and working, I suggest you add enough ammonia to it to equal 2 ppm. Then wait and test the next day. If the tank processes most or all of it and you see little or no nitrite, it means the tank is pretty much ready to handle the fish load. If it cannot handle most of it, you will know not to move the fish yet but to do a bit of fishless cycling on the new tank for a couple of days. The fish will be fine parked, Do not feed them more than every 3rd day and change 245 of the water every other day unless you see ammonia, then change more often.
 
Because you are moving over so much bacteria this way the odds are great the tank will be ready anywhere from right away to under a week.

 

[xgillian89x]

Thanks for your replies. A wee update.. I picked the tank up and the guy was just finishing emptying it. He did a water test when I was there and all the levels are good, all the substrate (only a few weeks old) was still in the tank so I have decided to just fill the tank up using his filter, substrate etc. I'm not going to have much space until the tank cycles as now have 2 tanks in my very small living room but at least I'm not worrying about all my fish getting killed. The tank is a juwel trigon 190 and it has the filter it comes with in it. The only stuff I could get my hands on that is similar to seachem prime is a new fluval make so I added that and tap safe to the water. I may need some advice in a few weeks regarding the internal filter as I've never dealt with an internal one before. So hopefully it does it stuff quickly and don't have any problems.
I'll check the ammonia/nitrite levels tomorrow see how it's getting on

 

[xgillian89x]

So the tank has been set up for a couple of days, I added fish food until I got my bottle of ammonia yesterday and there was nitrates in the water before I added ammonia. I put ammonia in last night and now the ammonia is off the chart but there is also slight nitrates present, can anyone tell me why that is? I've never cycled using ammonia before and every time I have done it with fish food it's went from ammonia to nitrites to nitrates no problem but now I don't know why I have ammonia and nitrates present at once?

 

[fluttermoth]

Have you tested your tap water for nitrate? Most supplies do have some, it's quite rare to have zero nitrate in your tap water.
 
Your ammonia shouldn't be off the chart, you must have added too much. You'll need to do some water changes until it's around 3ppm.

 

[xgillian89x]

Yeah I checked my tap water yesterday as my tank was showing chlorine and there's never chlorine in my tap water but I realised my test strips were out of date so checked with the test kit and the tap water is fine, no chlorine or nitrates. That was this morning that I checked ammonia and it was well above 8ppm but just checked it again and it's around 4 so it's dropped a lot. Can you advise me how much and how often I put the ammonia in? I only put 5ml in yesterday. Thanks.

 

[fluttermoth]

Don't add any, until it's all gone.
 
I'd advise to have a good read of this thread; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ and follow the instructions in there

 

[EllieJellyEllie]

+1 to fluttermoth
 
By adding to much ammonia you can stall the cycle and may have to do a water change and more waiting. Also have a look at THIS to find out how much ammonia to add. Change the calculator to 3 ppm instead of 5, and the ammonia calculator is at the bottom. Also, look on your bottle of ammonia to see how strong it is, and enter that number too. 

 

[xgillian89x]

I tried to use the calculator but I don't know the % of ammonia as it doesn't say on the bottle. Going by the standard 9.5% on the website I should have used 6ml and I only used 5ml, the ammonia is gradually coming down in the tank, I haven't done a water change and it's now down to 3ppm. So wait until there is no ammonia left in the tank and add some more? I won't put as much as 5ml in this time.

 

[Gruntle]

The cycling article says:
 
"If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time. Now, begin to test the ammonia and nitrite levels every other day. (You should be seeing nitrate soon if you have the kit.)
 
After the second ammonia addition, while waiting for nitrite to rise, peak and drop, the bacteria will need a maintenance feeding. When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm, give the bacteria a “snack” by adding 1/3 of the full amount. This “snack” should be needed somewhere between days 21 and 27 of the cycle.
 
After the maintenance feeding, whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.
If ammonia and nitrite both read 0 ppm, you are cycled. Do a large water change, be sure the water is the proper temperature, and add fish. The odds are this will not be the case quite this soon.
 
If ammonia and nitrite do not both read zero, continue to test daily. Whenever ammonia is again at .25 ppm or less and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, add the full amount of ammonia and test in 24 hours. Follow this pattern of testing and adding until both tests read 0 ppm. The cycle should not take much longer to be completed."
 
I'd suggest that if you added 5ml and you got over 8ppm you should try adding somewhere around 1.5 - 2ml and test after a few minutes.
 
I'd also be careful, if you've added 8ppm and not done a water change, you might stall your cycle if you add too much more ammonia before your nitrite peaks and falls. Perhaps someone with more experience can jump in here, but my recommendation would be to do a 50% water change before adding any more ammonia, should ensure your nitrite doesn't climb into the stall zone (IIRC 16ppm or thereabouts).

 

[xgillian89x]

Thanks I have done a water change and ammonia is now down to 1ppm so will keep checking and add the 1.5-2ml once it's dropped below the 0.75ppm. Will let you know how I get on.