That Stunted Growth Comment

[SaTiVa1984]

Over the years i have heard people say keeping fish that grow large, in tanks that are small will make them become stunted or dwarfed, Also a new one i keep seeing a lot is "the fish will be stunted but its organs will continue to grow" i have also heard people say it is a myth, and the fish will continue growing normally, but the stress this will cause may eventually kill it.

After joining these forums i have seen it mentioned many many times, and seen very little people refute this, but the fact that some people have refuted it makes me wonder if its actually true or not.

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

If this has been posted before, i cant find it

 

[tribalbrit]

Clown loach grow to 18" in the wild... put a 2" clown loach in a 1 foot tank, your going to stunt its growth..
Extreme but true.

 

[SaTiVa1984]

Clown loach grow to 18" in the wild... put a 2" clown loach in a 1 foot tank, your going to stunt its growth..
Extreme but true.

Are you sure it will not just die from stress before it reaches its adult size?

Could you actually prove that it would stunt its growth? thats what i am looking for.

 

[tribalbrit]

Well yes it will probably die from stress so it will not reach maturity nor full size, so yes the small tank has stunted its growth and shortened its life too.

Why do ask?

 

[SaTiVa1984]

Well yes it will probably die from stress so it will not reach maturity nor full size, so yes the small tank has stunted its growth and shortened its life too.

If its not reached full size how do you know its stunted its growth?

Somebody posted on these forums claiming that a somebody had grown a full size fish in a pipe, (believe it was a trout) it could barely move but it lived to maturity, it had no defects with its organs or size, BUT for the life of me i can't find the topic it was posted in, i would really like to read about that.

Why do ask?

I ask because this is something i have heard for many years, and would like to know if it is true or not, that simple.

 

[winkle]

I think the crux of the issue is water quality. The water parameters in a bigger body of water won't fluctuate as wildly as a small one, and I think that might be the cause of the stunting. Too little dissolved oxygen or too much poisonous waste are more likely to occur in a smaller tank, which will stress the fish and prevent it from growing to it's full potential.

Still, this is all just based on personal casual obvservation and warnings from other people. I'm willing to accept that too small a tank = stunting on advice alone though. Just like how I don't feel the need to stick my own finger in an electrical socket. I've never seen anyone get a mains supply shock let alone die from one, I've just been told that it does you no favours.

 

[nurglespuss]

A lot of the 'science' behind these ideas is based on research done in the commerical fisheries (especially salmon sea cages) (the hormone/stunting etc. side).

In the 'aquarium' very little research has been done, almost everything you hear is either supposition, 'correlation', observation, or just myth/hearsay etc.

What has been done is mainly behavioural, increased aggression, territory dynamics, disease prevailance etc.

The biggest myth is the internal organs one, bodies are not generally self destructive in that context!

However, stunting (more just generally subnormal growth in less than optimumn conditions) due to the innevitable poor water quality is an issue. There is also the 'total' size issue, based purely on colloquial evidence, more fish are reaching 'full' size in captivity (particularly hardier catfish species) than in recent history, probably as a result of technological improvements (external filters) and improved diets.

Most 'older' aquarium books will quote a 'wild' and an 'aquarium' size, captive breeding for the stock market aside, these fish may be wild caught, and are 'generally' the same creatures as in the 'wild' and so captivity 'could' play a role in reduced total growth. However, a final point to consider; as with parrots, dogs, reptiles etc. etc. captive animals (including fish) tend to have a vastly increased life span compared to 'wild' counterparts, the alternate/reduced pressures of 'safe' aquarium existence may play a role in a different 'type' of developmental growth etc.

Food for thought!

 

[moochy13]

my mate has 2 bala sharks. 3 years in a 2.5 foot tank, and a year in a 3ft tank, they are about 4 inches long. bala sharks are huge fish, id call a 4 year old 4 inch bala stunted. his water has always been been good, understocked tank.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Very interesting topic. If the evidence does exist then surely someone can provide a solid reference, otherwise i am placing this firmly in my dubious info pile

 

[moochy13]

to prove evidence, somebody has to keep some potentially big fish in a tiny tank, which just isnt cricket. ive got an angel fish that spent the first 2 years of its life in a 60l tank - its now nearly 4 years old, and again, it definitely isnt full grown.

heres a video, the first half of it shows my angel. i dont know how long it should take to get full size, but this is after about 3 years, you can sort of estimate the size when it goes to the end of the tank, deffo not full size. and it hasnt really grown in the year since. it is however healthy, seems to be living normally and has a voracious apetite. might be conincidence, but its possible its small size is a reaosn for his/her very relaxed temperamant towards various rams and apistos is lived with.

this was its home for 2 years, which is what prompted me to set my current tank to give him, and other fish in that tank, a better home.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Sorry, my post was not clear. I agree that there appears to be evidence of fish growth being inhibited by restrictive tanks (and fish generally don't reach adult size in captivity) but the internal organ remark must have research behind it to back it up. If that exists then I am unaware of it.

 

[fluttermoth]

It's certainly true that inadequate tank size and more importantly, inadequate water changes, can cause fish to be stunted. I've seen this myself on many occasions and had many remarks on, for instance the size of my tiger barbs, which are much bigger than most other peoples!

But like Zoddy, I've never seen or heard any evidence to suggest that the fish's internal organs continue to grow.

Indeed I've had a few fishkeepers, whose opinion I respect very much, tell me that it's not true. I certainly don't say it myself any more.

 

[afremont]

It's certainly true that inadequate tank size and more importantly, inadequate water changes, can cause fish to be stunted. I've seen this myself on many occasions and had many remarks on, for instance the size of my tiger barbs, which are much bigger than most other peoples!

But like Zoddy, I've never seen or heard any evidence to suggest that the fish's internal organs continue to grow.

Indeed I've had a few fishkeepers, whose opinion I respect very much, tell me that it's not true. I certainly don't say it myself any more.

I have read (can't tell you exactly where at the moment) that fish excrete a hormone that stunts their growth. Small bodies of water or heavy populations would lead to smaller fish in nature. Infrequent water changes and overstocked tanks would be our equivalent I suppose. I've noticed my fish experience growth spurts after I've been doing allot of large and frequent water changes. I don't know if hormone theory is true, but it sounds reasonable enough.

 

[SaTiVa1984]

The hormone theory is another ball game imo, it sounds more natural than this topics main question, i would be more inclined to believe that then the stunted growth/organ talk.

Back onto this tho, is there nobody with any real scientific research links into this? its all good showing pictures but it is still is no real proof that your tank size caused its small size, i have a breeding pair of angels in my 340l , i have had them since being really small, the male is almost twice the size of the female, infact i was concerned that the female had some issues because of her size, but no she is healthy and laying eggs in hundreds, it could quite simply be its genetics from years of inbreeding etc.

 

[nurglespuss]

There is no 'aquarium' scale research on this topic, there's no funding available for such specialists/small scale research.

S something good to discuss, but there is nothing published out there.