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Discussion in 'New to the Hobby Questions and Answers' started by SNicole, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. flchamp89

    flchamp89 Fish Crazy

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    Regardless of type cycling you shouldn't stock completely all at once.

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  2. SNicole

    SNicole New Member

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    I got that from a link on fishless cycling that's very popular on the forum (http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/) the paragraph says:

    "A major benefit of this fishless cycling method is that you can now fully stock your tank in one go. This means an average stocking level for your tank size. It certainly does not mean you can stock heavily or over stock. If for any reason you are unable to stock the tank when it is cycled, you can continue adding ammonia to keep the tank cycled. For this you should add the 1/3 snack amount every 2-3 days. The bacteria do not need to be fed every day and will be fine. Don’t forget the water change before adding the fish."

    I've never tried it so honestly couldn't tell ya. But if you don't mind me asking, how do you introduce fish? I had tanks as a teenager and always just added fish gradually, but I don't know what is the right way to do it. Thanks.
     
  3. flchamp89

    flchamp89 Fish Crazy

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    First time I read that.....like Byron im older ive cycled all different ways. Personally I dont like that paragraph you quoted. But we all have opinions. In a large tank I typically do fish in. In smaller tanks I do fishless. I wouldn't introduce all my fish at once unless I was doing TSS or Dr Tims. Ive never used the latter but have used TSS. Problem with cycling is its rarely going to go like the guide says. It generally takes longer than one thinks. People lack patience. If you do fish in try to pick fish your willing to keep if they survive. Saves trouble of what to do with them. I still cycle with flakes...im old school. Does it take long time....very. Lol

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  4. Ch4rlie

    Ch4rlie Unlicensed Moderating Moderator
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    I have to say, I personally agree with that paragraph, its actually one of the benefits of fishless cycling with 3ppm of ammonia as this amount is way over what a fully stocked tank will produce in bioload at any given point in time.

    So having the tank fully stocked quickly will also lessen the agression factor in certain species, there are a few exceptions of course but generally its fine to do so.

    I have done this method on several tanks and have to say I have not noticed any real issues with agression, fish health or behaviour in doing things this way. But slowly stocking your tank at a rate of say 6 - 8 fish a week or so will not unduly ,overload the bacterias as this will give them time to colonise suitably so it is not a bad method either.

    Just as long either method is followed carefully then there should be no issues at all.
     
  5. SNicole

    SNicole New Member

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    Thanks to you both. I'm just trying to get ANY method to work lol. Theoretically, I've got the fishless cycling thing down to a science. However as I've stated, my ammonia levels won't change after 15 days at all, even with the use of stability. I'm lost! I'll gladly cycle using platys or something, but I had hoped the fishless cycle would work and I'm trying to find answers, but nobody seems to know why my poor tank won't begin to cycle. :p
     
  6. Ch4rlie

    Ch4rlie Unlicensed Moderating Moderator
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    Can you get more up to date test results?

    Particularly pH, gH and kH. ( you can get this information from your local water authority website)

    Also what temperature is your tank currently at?

    And if your water surface in your tank is being rippled/broken by your filter flow?
    (this helps to oxygenate your water column which the bacterias need)
     
  7. SNicole

    SNicole New Member

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    I'm not sure how to do it from my cell phone, but the water quality is all in post 22 of this thread including photos, gh, and kh. The temp is at 78 degrees as its a preset heater. I've confirmed with a thermometer this is the correct temp as well. And yep! The filter is breaking up the surface. I changed about 50 percent of the water yesterday out of desperation and dosed it with prime. Not sure what I was hoping would happen with that.
     
  8. Ch4rlie

    Ch4rlie Unlicensed Moderating Moderator
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    have just read throught he thread, must admit I did kinda skim most of it!

    Byron has explained things regarding ph, gH an kH rather well so I won't go any further with that.

    Your water is fairly hard, which is ideal for fishless cycling tanks. Temperature is fine at 78F though can be increased to 85F max generally as the lower the temp, the slower the cycle will go but higher temps wont make the cycle go faster! heh

    Something along the way has stalled your cycle I reckon, unsure what exactly, could be the wood or substrate, could be the seachem stability but really could be any number of things really.

    So perhaps starting again might be worthwhile to get the cycle going once more, doing as large as a water change as you can will restart things.

    Then maybe you could do a diary with notes of every test you have done and what readings are etc. I do this myself so I have exact dates and test result rather than relying on memory. So in that instance if anything goes wrong you can then refer to your notes/diary to see if anything was remiss.

    Doing exact dosages of ammonia is fairly important as well as monitoring the whole process.

    Probably not what you may want to hear but once a cycle has been stalled for whatever reasons, it can be hard to get things going again without restarting or doing a big water change to reset levels.
     
  9. Byron

    Byron Member

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    There have been several intervening posts in my absence, but rather than try to keep up with those I'll just comment on what is here.

    First, stay with one method, whatever you choose. You can do fishless cycle adding some form of ammonia ("ammonia" as such, or fish food as someone mentioned). You can do cycling with a bacterial supplement and a few fish. You can do "cycling" with live plants and fish. Decide which and follow the process.

    Having said that, you can mix the last two, using a bacterial supplement and live plants. I have done this a couple times. I myself would not add "ammonia" with either of these two processes. While it can work, it seems to cause problems most of the time (according to past threads here and elsewhere that I've seen). Ammonia is toxic to all life forms when the level is high enough, and this includes plants. Plants like fish will be going through a "settling in" period in a new tank, and there is no point in risking things. Keep it simple.

    That brings me to my recommendation for where you are now. I would do major water changes to get rid of all ammonia. Do you have live plants? If yes, fine, I would use Stability (if that is the product you have) or Tetra's SafeStart, and add the first fish. If no live plants, I would consider getting some, particularly floating. Floating plants are incredible benefits in all fish tanks, at all times. They are like ammonia sinks, meaning, they can use a lot of ammonia (from the fish).

    As for the fish, use a species you intend having in the tank when it is running. We are not talking about using fish to "cycle" in the sense that the fish are somehow harmed and disposable. We are adding fish that will be fine from day one because there will be no "cycling" to speak of. The bacteria will still establish, but if this is done properly there will never be ammonia or nitrite above zero, so the fish are not being harmed in any way. But, not all fish are preferable in new tanks, not because of cycling but because of the biological system; an established tank that has been running for several months is far different than a cycled new tank. These are two very different things.

    If you can tell us what fish you intend in this aquarium, we can suggest what might be best to start with.

    Byron.
     

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