Tankmate Suggestions

[SNicole]

Good to think about, thank you. I knew to avoid tiger barbs like the plague with those other fish, but I didn't know cherry barbs were nippy.

How many platys do you recommend to keep together? I've found recommendations on the rest of the types of fish, but can't find a definite answer on that one. Can I keep all male platys if I do get them or will they get agitated/nippy and fight?

 

[Byron]

I'll first respond to your questions in post #14 about water hardness. The parameters of GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity) and pH are closely connected. To keep this from getting overly complicated, the GH is the amount of dissolved mineral in the water. Water is a powerful solvent, which means that it very readily will take up anything it comes into contact with. Water falling from clouds is "pure," like distilled water. As it falls it can assimilate substances in the air, then in the ground over which is flows or sits. Water coming into contact with rocks that are calcareous, meaning composed of a calcium like limestone, will become "hard" as the mineral dissolves into the water. So the GH of the water coming out of your tap is due to the source of that water, the reservoir, lake, river or from wherever the municipality gets the water. Now, it can also pick up other minerals such as copper from the copper pipes in the building, but unless the pipes are brand new, this is minimal. The minerals at the water's source are the important ones.

Water conditioners like Prime and any other do not affect the GH, KH or pH of the source water. They will detoxify "heavy metals" (if it says this on the label, Prime and most others do) which include copper, iron, zinc, manganese; so this should take care of any residual metals picked up along the way. But the dissolved minerals responsible for the GH remain.

You also asked about adjusting the GH. The safest and easiest way to do this is to dilute the water with "pure" water. However, this is not easy in itself, and I don't think I want to get into this complexity just yet. First we need to be more certain of the GH (and KH would be useful to know). The API test will do this, though you could contact your water authority for the data as was suggested previously by someone.

Now to post #16. If the final determination of the GH shows fairly hard water, it would be best to consider fish that require such water. This is far simpler than adjusting parameters. Livebearers (platy, molly, swordtail, guppy, Endler), some rainbowfish, and a few others would be suitable as far as the parameters go. If the GH is only moderately hard, then the options increase a lot.

As for livebearers, yes, males only is a good way to go to avoid hundreds of fry monthly.

Byron.

 

[SNicole]

Thanks, Byron. I will call the water supplier on Monday and get that info. I tried finding it online but the info wasn't listed. I'll get back to you guys when I find that out.

As far as platys go, it sounds like those are going to be okay in my tank with the hard water. Say for example I plan on getting 5 platys. Do they all have to be one variety of platy or can I get different ones?

 

[Byron]

Thanks, Byron. I will call the water supplier on Monday and get that info. I tried finding it online but the info wasn't listed. I'll get back to you guys when I find that out.

As far as platys go, it sounds like those are going to be okay in my tank with the hard water. Say for example I plan on getting 5 platys. Do they all have to be one variety of platy or can I get different ones?

You can mix the platies. Just be sure they are all males.

When you talk to the water people, we need to know the general hardness and carbonate hardness (Alkalinity), and the unit they measure in as there are several.

 

[SNicole]

I asked the management company where I live how to get ahold of the water company around here as I couldn't find a number online (it's a newer area) and I got a little info. I called to leave a message with the water company for exact specifics, but the management lady told me that we have lake water here and that's it's soft, between 7-8 grains are her exact words. However, my water out of the faucet is very hard according to a test strip. I have ordered the API test kit so hopefully I can get this sorted out, but still....might that difference be from the pipes since my apartment is new?

This weekend I went to a LFS and they housed several mollies and platys together. Can I house 1-2 male mollies with 2-3 male platys and have them be okay or should I stick to just the platys?

 

[Byron]

I asked the management company where I live how to get ahold of the water company around here as I couldn't find a number online (it's a newer area) and I got a little info. I called to leave a message with the water company for exact specifics, but the management lady told me that we have lake water here and that's it's soft, between 7-8 grains are her exact words. However, my water out of the faucet is very hard according to a test strip. I have ordered the API test kit so hopefully I can get this sorted out, but still....might that difference be from the pipes since my apartment is new?

This weekend I went to a LFS and they housed several mollies and platys together. Can I house 1-2 male mollies with 2-3 male platys and have them be okay or should I stick to just the platys?

The "grains" is most likely "grains per gallon," a common measurement in the US. To convert, 17.12 gpg is approximately 1 ppm (ppm is the same as mg/l). So 7 to 8 gpg will be half of 1 ppm, or basically zero, which is very soft. My tap water is 7 ppm, still very soft.

This raises the question of your test strips showing the water hard. The API liquid GH/KH test will be more accurate, and if the water lady is correct, one drop will turn the test water to the colour for the respective test. Let's wait for that. The test strip may be way off, or something may be added to your building water. Do you know if they use any sort of equipment to modify the water? We had another member who had this, adding calcium to her tap water.

If the end result is indeed soft water, you do not want livebearers as they will not last long. They must have minerals, and the molly is the most sensitive of the group. But platies are not far behind when it comes to very soft water.

Byron.

 

[SNicole]

The water authority never got back to me, but luckily my API test kit came in today! I also ordered the GH/KH kit. I took these readings from the aquarium that I just set up and added water to last night.
Here are my numbers:

kH=between 107.4-125.3 ppm (it took 6 drops to begin turning, but didn't turn bright yellow until 7 drops)

GH= 179 ppm (took 10 drops) (When I repeated it with my tap water fresh from the faucet, it was 1 drop less, so 161 ppm)

pH= with the low range, it was the darkest blue shade so I used the high pH test and it was 8.2. However, I just set up my aquarium last night so wanted to see if that affected it. I repeated the same pH tests on my tap water fresh from the faucet and it appeared to be around 7.9

The pH concerns me a little, but I guess the water wasn't quite as hard as I thought it was, though still hard. No idea where the lady got 7-8 grains from who I originally contacted, but definitely not the case.

Any suggestions to fix these parameters or what should I do? The fish I was HOPING to be able to house are panda corys, neon tetras, harlequin rasboras, a dwarf gourami, and a couple platys/mollies.

 

[Byron]

I would want to confirm the GH/KH/pH numbers before suggesting fish.

The pH test is very straightforward so we should be able to rely on these numbers. However, when testing tap water you need to out-gas any CO2. CO2 dissolved in tap water will lower the pH by creating carbonic acid. This is common in tap water, depending upon the source. Let a glass of fresh tap water sit for 24 hours, then test the water in the glass. Or you can briskly agitate fresh tap water in a covered jar, though some say this may not be as reliable. Anyway, out-gassing the CO2 will give you a more reliable reading.

To the water in the aquarium. If the above holds, this explains the higher pH. Your test of the tap water will confirm this. But another possibility is that there may be calcareous material in the tank, such as the substrate or rock. Do you know of what substance the substrate is composed? Is there any rock? Calcareous substances could also explain the higher GH/KH/pH.

Does your water authority have a website? IF yes, and you post the link, I'll see if I can find something. I would be concerned over the significant variance between what they said and what your tests show.

Mollies and platies need moderately hard to hard water; platies would manage in 10 dGH (179 ppm) if this turns out to be accurate, and mollies should be OK, though this is at the low end of their range. The GH is not too high to prevent soft water species (the others mentioned). Let's get this sorted out first.

Byron.

 

[SNicole]

Water authority got back to me today!

They said the pH is 7.8
GH is 130 mgl (7.6 grains)
Alkalinity is 100 mgl

I'm not sure how to convert those units, so I'm not sure if the GH and alkalinity match what came out of my faucet, but the pH seems to be about the same as what I got when I tested the water.

Also, the substrate is CaribSea super naturals sand which says its safe for freshwater and that it doesn't alter the pH so I hope that's true. There is fake driftwood from petsmart and fake plants, but otherwise no rocks.

 

[Byron]

The mg/l number (milligrams per liter, which is the same as ppm or parts per million) equates to 7 dGH, which is close to your API test results and thus I think you can take it as accurate. Same for the KH. So you have moderately hard water, close to being soft. I would forget mollies and platys now, and stay with the softer water species like the tetras and catfish. Most of the commonly available species will (or should) have no issues here.

Now for the pH...did you out-gas some tap water and test that? I would still want to be certain of the initial pH of your tap water if this were me, as your tests of the tank water will need the tap results to compare with so you know if anything happens to raise/lower pH over time. The pH test is a valuable one to do periodically, along with nitrate, as changes (significant) in these can be indicative of problems. So it is best to have a good understanding of things, and know the tap as you test it.

The CarribSea Super Natural substrate should be no problem, agreed. The driftwood might, depending what it is made from. But let's be certain of the pH as detailed in the preceding paragraph before jumping to conclusions. There is also the matter of the tank's biology establishing over the next few months, which will likely affect the pH (lowering it) as the KH is not too high to prevent this in my view. We have to see what nature is going to do here, every aquarium is different.

Edit. Jujst occurred to me, I think they are confusing "grains" with "degrees" somehow, as 130 ppm would be 7.6 dGH...just a thought, but it would further show we are still close to the mark all way round.

Byron.

 

[SNicole]

Thanks for all of your help and valuable information!!!

I was still out-gassing the water so I didn't write the results last time, but I just performed the pH test on the tap water and this time it appears to be maybe 8.0 or 8.1 as the color isn't exact.

I have no idea why, but it was actually the water authority who gave me the value and labeled it as grains. But at least it looks like my hardness and alkalinity are close to what he said. The pH coming from my tap is a little higher than his value and I'm really unsure of what causes this to happen.

I am just hoping that I won't have water that is too basic for those fish.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for all of your help and valuable information!!!

I was still out-gassing the water so I didn't write the results last time, but I just performed the pH test on the tap water and this time it appears to be maybe 8.0 or 8.1 as the color isn't exact.

I have no idea why, but it was actually the water authority who gave me the value and labeled it as grains. But at least it looks like my hardness and alkalinity are close to what he said. The pH coming from my tap is a little higher than his value and I'm really unsure of what causes this to happen.

I am just hoping that I won't have water that is too basic for those fish.

At least the out-gas tap water test is showing a higher pH (comparable to the tank pH) and it is therefore not likely something in the aquarium doing this, so that is another thing settled. The pH can be influenced by substances the water comes into contact with, from source to your tap. The other thing is that 7.8 or 7.9 to 8.0 or 8.2 is a very minimal difference. Around 7 this would be important as it would be changing from acidic to basic much more significantly. Even if I might prefer a lower pH altogether, I certainly would not worry about the minimal differences here.

There is still the matter of what may occur once the aquarium's biological system gets down the road. The pH will not rise from that, but it may well lower.

Byron.

 

[SNicole]

I posted this to another thread, but didn't get many responses. Any ideas or suggestions?

I'm on day 15 of TRYING to cycle my 36 gal bowfront aquarium. All my parameters are in this thread for water and my heater is on/filter is running. I dosed my aquarium to 3-4 ppm with ammonia that had no surfactants or fragrance on day one. I haven't added any ammonia since, but it's been 3-4 ppm consistently every single day since with no drop in ammonia, and no detected nitrites or nitrates. I also added seachem stability everyday for the first week, and there was a bacterial bloom at first because the water turned cloudy, but no nitrogen cycling. I thought it was a bad bottle of seachem stability so I exchanged it for a new bottle. So far, I've been putting it in the last 3-4 nights and there is again another bacterial bloom (the aquarium cleared up in between), but there is no change in the nitrogen cycle again. What gives? What can I do? I feel like my poor aquarium won't even begin cycling.

 

[Byron]

I have never "cycled" an aquarium with any form of added ammonia. If you are using a bacterial supplement (and Seachem's Stability is one I have used twice with success) I would do major water changes to get rid of all the ammonia and just use the Stability. I would put in the first fish, just a very few. I always have floating plants which practically guarantees nothing will harm the fish.

The cloudiness is bacterial in origin, and the ammonia and Stabilty likely behind it.

 

[SNicole]

Okay, so you're suggesting a fish-in cycle. I will try that as I cannot seem to get the fishless cycling method that is all the rage right now to work. I'm wondering if my water is lacking some sort of nutrient or mineral? I just can't believe that none of the ammonia was consumed by the seachem stability.

I did a major water change today and will do another in a few days and again until I again see 0 ppm ammonia. After that, what type of fish is hardy enough to endure cycling and how many would you suggest adding? Then how will I know when I can add more? The benefit of fishless cycling is you're supposed to be able to stock all at once. However, something went awry! Lol

Thank you!!