Tank WILL NOT complete cycle

@JatLB
There has to be something stalling thing or else chnging things.

I am not a van of most products sold to seed the cycle. Almost none of them contain the proper living bacteria. I personally nelieve the best use for Stability is as a toilet bowl cleaner. SeaChem makes some great products, I use a few of them, but Stability is not one. In a nut shell. stability is a bottle of spores, the nitrifying bacteria do form spores, they reproduce by dividing.

I only recommend two cycling products which are essentially the same thing; Dr, Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start Plus. There are a number of patens whuch protect the bacteria that handle nitrite in tanks. so other products besides those two contain them- they are called Nitrospira.

However, there are other bacteria that can process both ammonia and nitrite. But they are not ones which are found lon term in tanks. My best guess is that stability contains things that help over the shorter term but do not persist in tanks very long. They get replaced by the ones found in the two products I mentioned.

My best guess here without a lot more info about how things progessed in your tank from the start is that the Stability is the culprit. Cycling is a process and knowing exactly where a tank is in the process is how one can determine what to do. Bacterial strains for nitrification vary and they have different affinities for ammonia and nitrite, This basically refers to how much of these things they need to thrive. Some do great on lower leverl like we find in aquariums and other thrive in waste treatment where the levels the very high.

So I am thinking that thie issue in your tank is that whatever in stability processes nitrite may be holding that down. That fuel stuff is basically ammonia. I have ni idea what exactly in any bottled bacterial product besides the two I mentioned and I have no clue how what they might be affect a cycle.

So my next question is have to done a huge water change at any point in your cucling? By uge I mean as close tp 100% as possible? Normally, when cycle appears stuck the best solution is to do reset to get as much as in the water out and start over. The next Q is what dechlor are you using? Because how SeaChem Prime works it can cause bad readings for ammonia. SiInce they are not sure how it works to neutralize nitrite, I am not sure it cannot do the same for it. So the solution is to do the test either very soon after adding the prime or else to wait for at least 36 hours to test.

Normally, the best way to dechlor for cycling is to use one which does not detoxify ammonia or say it also does so for nitrite.

To do a reset:
1. Test for both ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and recods the numbers.
2. Do a massive water change and dechlor the water. Test again for the three nitrogen items again and test the pH or if you have the test, for KH and record the numbers. The bacteria use KH as an inorganic carbon source. KH is also what keeps pH from dropping.
3. Assuming your ammonia is going to between 0 and .25 ppm and the nitrite is not above 2.0, dose 3 ppm of ammonia into the tank.
4. Wait about 15 minutes a test for ammonia. It should be about 3.0 ppm. If you had ammonia as mentioned in #3, add it to 3.0 and that is the max. level you should have. You could have a bit under 3.0 as well, Whatever the number is, record it and then wait 24 hours.
5. Test again. Start with ammonia, if it has dropped from what you tested in #4, then test for nitrite. record the numbers. Also test again for either pH or KH.

Please post all the resuylts from the steps above in this thread, Hopefull this will give a better picturr of what is going on in your tank.

Do not add other chemicals/additives/etc. aside from the dechlor.

*The reason for testing the pH is it will help let us be sure that low KH isn't causing an issue.
 
years ago I read something that said I could put a potted plant in an aquarium (one that hadn't been fertilized), and feed the tank ammonia and it would provide the bacteria to cycle the tank. So my heartleaf philodendron raised its hand and volunteered and in it went. Used pure grocery store ammonia - don't remember the brand, a couple of drops a day and it still took about 3 weeks but it did cycle, the last trace of nitrite though, to get it to clear after 18 days or so (would have to find that notebook), after I had nitrate, I did have to stop adding ammonia to make it safe for fish. If use any bottled bacteria it's Fritz and I don't get it on amazon. pH testing is a good thing too, as the nitrification cycle will use up the kh and drop ph.
 
@JatLB
There has to be something stalling thing or else chnging things.

I am not a van of most products sold to seed the cycle. Almost none of them contain the proper living bacteria. I personally nelieve the best use for Stability is as a toilet bowl cleaner. SeaChem makes some great products, I use a few of them, but Stability is not one. In a nut shell. stability is a bottle of spores, the nitrifying bacteria do form spores, they reproduce by dividing.

I only recommend two cycling products which are essentially the same thing; Dr, Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start Plus. There are a number of patens whuch protect the bacteria that handle nitrite in tanks. so other products besides those two contain them- they are called Nitrospira.

However, there are other bacteria that can process both ammonia and nitrite. But they are not ones which are found lon term in tanks. My best guess is that stability contains things that help over the shorter term but do not persist in tanks very long. They get replaced by the ones found in the two products I mentioned.

My best guess here without a lot more info about how things progessed in your tank from the start is that the Stability is the culprit. Cycling is a process and knowing exactly where a tank is in the process is how one can determine what to do. Bacterial strains for nitrification vary and they have different affinities for ammonia and nitrite, This basically refers to how much of these things they need to thrive. Some do great on lower leverl like we find in aquariums and other thrive in waste treatment where the levels the very high.

So I am thinking that thie issue in your tank is that whatever in stability processes nitrite may be holding that down. That fuel stuff is basically ammonia. I have ni idea what exactly in any bottled bacterial product besides the two I mentioned and I have no clue how what they might be affect a cycle.

So my next question is have to done a huge water change at any point in your cucling? By uge I mean as close tp 100% as possible? Normally, when cycle appears stuck the best solution is to do reset to get as much as in the water out and start over. The next Q is what dechlor are you using? Because how SeaChem Prime works it can cause bad readings for ammonia. SiInce they are not sure how it works to neutralize nitrite, I am not sure it cannot do the same for it. So the solution is to do the test either very soon after adding the prime or else to wait for at least 36 hours to test.

Normally, the best way to dechlor for cycling is to use one which does not detoxify ammonia or say it also does so for nitrite.

To do a reset:
1. Test for both ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and recods the numbers.
2. Do a massive water change and dechlor the water. Test again for the three nitrogen items again and test the pH or if you have the test, for KH and record the numbers. The bacteria use KH as an inorganic carbon source. KH is also what keeps pH from dropping.
3. Assuming your ammonia is going to between 0 and .25 ppm and the nitrite is not above 2.0, dose 3 ppm of ammonia into the tank.
4. Wait about 15 minutes a test for ammonia. It should be about 3.0 ppm. If you had ammonia as mentioned in #3, add it to 3.0 and that is the max. level you should have. You could have a bit under 3.0 as well, Whatever the number is, record it and then wait 24 hours.
5. Test again. Start with ammonia, if it has dropped from what you tested in #4, then test for nitrite. record the numbers. Also test again for either pH or KH.

Please post all the resuylts from the steps above in this thread, Hopefull this will give a better picturr of what is going on in your tank.

Do not add other chemicals/additives/etc. aside from the dechlor.

*The reason for testing the pH is it will help let us be sure that low KH isn't causing an issue.
Ok....so...
Step 1: initial tests were ammonia 4.0ppm, nitrites, .25 ppm, nitrates <5.0ppm, ph around 6.6-6.8
Step 2: Huge water change, 80%. Dechlor water
Step 3: Ammonia between .25ppm, nitrites 0, and nitrates 0ish. ph still 6.6-6.8
Step 4: added liquid ammonia source to bring up to 3.0ppm ammonia.
Step 5: Checked levels after 24 hours, ammonia remains around 3.0ppm, nitrites are still 0 and nitrates are <5.0ppm.

Tank remains at 80-82 degrees.
 
missing nitrosomonas bacteria. Possibly nitrobacter too. I have never used Stability. I've done better with a heartleaf philodendron (dirt and all, in a nylon stocking) or a pinch of compost from my pile. If youa re going to buy products fresh FritzZyme or fresh Fritz Turbo are the best, but I am fortunate, I live about 70 miles from Fritz and have access to very fresh product
 
missing nitrosomonas bacteria. Possibly nitrobacter too. I have never used Stability. I've done better with a heartleaf philodendron (dirt and all, in a nylon stocking) or a pinch of compost from my pile. If youa re going to buy products fresh FritzZyme or fresh Fritz Turbo are the best, but I am fortunate, I live about 70 miles from Fritz and have access to very fresh product
I used turbo start 700 before my reset. It still wouldn’t cycle.
 
was the turbo fresh. and was there any fish food in the tank. It will not reproduce without phosphorus. I would not order fritz products off amazon. Because while they are available I know the temperature of an Amazon truck in north Texas in the summer. I know a driver for them. Turbo would be doa.
 
years ago I read something that said I could put a potted plant in an aquarium (one that hadn't been fertilized), and feed the tank ammonia and it would provide the bacteria to cycle the tank. So my heartleaf philodendron raised its hand and volunteered and in it went. Used pure grocery store ammonia - don't remember the brand, a couple of drops a day and it still took about 3 weeks but it did cycle, the last trace of nitrite though, to get it to clear after 18 days or so (would have to find that notebook), after I had nitrate, I did have to stop adding ammonia to make it safe for fish. If use any bottled bacteria it's Fritz and I don't get it on amazon. pH testing is a good thing too, as the nitrification cycle will use up the kh and drop ph.

I do not understand this...how a potted plant could cause cycling, unless the plant is dying and thus producing ammonia by decomposing. Can you explain the rationale?
 
was the turbo fresh. and was there any fish food in the tank. It will not reproduce without phosphorus. I would not order fritz products off amazon. Because while they are available I know the temperature of an Amazon truck in north Texas in the summer. I know a driver for them. Turbo would be doa.
I don’t think there was anything left in fish food. But at one point there were fish. And I ordered from a depot who had 2 day delivery with ice packs.
 
I think you are going to have to seed bacteria, but you could always
I don’t think there was anything left in fish food. But at one point there were fish. And I ordered from a depot who had 2 day delivery with ice packs.
I think you are going to have to restart. But you could always use a potted plant as long as it's not a succulent or something that will die in water. Get a nylon knee high stocking (3 pair at dollar store cost about a dollar, endless fishkeeping uses), Remove pot, put dirt and root ball in stocking, tie off with a rubberband around base of plant. put in tank. The bacteria in the soil aren't as fast as turbo and you may get a little tea coloring depending on your potting soil, but you might get a surprise in your cycling results. And yes I've done it, don't anymore, because most of my houseplants are either too big or succulents.
 
I do not understand this...how a potted plant could cause cycling, unless the plant is dying and thus producing ammonia by decomposing. Can you explain the rationale?
the nitrogen cycle is present in soil too. The bacteria are there
 
the nitrogen cycle is present in soil too. The bacteria are there

But they are not the same bacteria so this won't work. I thought that was what was going on here...the advice is from a source back some years I suspect, before scientific studies revealed that the bacteria are different in water than those responsible for nitrification on land. Here are the two prime studies on this, the first on the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria and the second on probable nitrite-oxidizing bacteria.



And this is another paper on the subject.

 
But they are not the same bacteria so this won't work. I thought that was what was going on here...the advice is from a source back some years I suspect, before scientific studies revealed that the bacteria are different in water than those responsible for nitrification on land. Here are the two prime studies on this, the first on the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria and the second on probable nitrite-oxidizing bacteria.



And this is another paper on the subject.

Then I guess my tank cycled from airborne bacteria. I documented the experiment, did it in the late 90s. Still worked, tank cycled. I did not identify the bacteria but I was pleased with the results.
 
Then I guess my tank cycled from airborne bacteria. I documented the experiment, did it in the late 90s. Still worked, tank cycled. I did not identify the bacteria but I was pleased with the results.

No, the bacteria are not airborne, another discovery. The nitrifying bacteria we need to "cycle" occur in water only, and come in the tap water. This is further proof that chlorine and chloramine do not kill these bacteria in any significant level. The bacteria arrive in the fresh tap water (unless one seeds them from another source obviously) and slowly multiply.

This is also why washing filter media in tank water is a waste of time, tap water will not kill these bacteria in any appreciable amount. Neale Monks provided me with a scientific study carried out on the water supply in an American city that uses chloramine, and it found that more than half of the nitrifying bacteria in the source water was still alive and healthy after filtration with chloramine. More than half is significant. The same study also found that chloramine does not kill TB virus present in the water, which is or should be of concern to us. Here's the link to this study.

 
No, the bacteria are not airborne, another discovery. The nitrifying bacteria we need to "cycle" occur in water only, and come in the tap water. This is further proof that chlorine and chloramine do not kill these bacteria in any significant level. The bacteria arrive in the fresh tap water (unless one seeds them from another source obviously) and slowly multiply.

This is also why washing filter media in tank water is a waste of time, tap water will not kill these bacteria in any appreciable amount. Neale Monks provided me with a scientific study carried out on the water supply in an American city that uses chloramine, and it found that more than half of the nitrifying bacteria in the source water was still alive and healthy after filtration with chloramine. More than half is significant. The same study also found that chloramine does not kill TB virus present in the water, which is or should be of concern to us. Here's the link to this study.

I routinely clean media in cool tap water. ah well, the plant added color during the cycle
 
I routinely clean media in cool tap water. ah well, the plant added color during the cycle

Yes. And temperature is important as you say, as one way to kill the nitrifying bacteria is by boiling or freezing. Or drying out will kill them too.
 

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