Substrate & German Blue Ram Health

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mark4785

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I currently have a sand substrate installed in my 120 litre aquarium. It is manufactured by 'Caribsea' and it's called 'Torpedo Beach Instant Aquarium Sand'.

Has anybody used this or another product from the instant aquarium range, and if so, I'd be grateful if someone could tell me if it has the function of coral sand (coral sand highers the PH and water hardness) or anything else which highers KH, GH or PH water parameters?

I've been told that the product is PH neutral by a few people but I have a continuing problem with the way in which my German Blue Ram responds to the sand. He will rub himself repeatedly on plant leaves and the substrate in extremely quick succession and will waddle his fins at a rate that I've never experienced a fish do before. He is completely normal when swimming higher up in the water column but when he swims within 2-3 cm of the substrate he reacts as though something is attacking him. The other fish (Dwarf suckermouth, Dwarf Neon Rainbow, Black Neon Tetras) are happy and fine at all times and at all water levels!

I'm concerned that there might be an anaerobic build up in the substrate or possibly a source of nitrogen trapped which gets released into the water column when a fish swims over it. The sand is about 4cm deep; I see this has a sensible level since my tank contains plants and without sufficient sand I can't anchor any of the plants. If there are no toxic build-ups in the sand then I'm pondering if the sand itself is the problem.

Post copied from another topic of mine:

Thanks for the reply.

If it's not the substrate causing the rubbing then I'm clueless as to what is really.

My water stats are as follows (tested 16/12/10): total ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate nearly 20ppm, PH 7.2.

No parasites are in the tank, if there was I'd expect all the fish to be rubbing.

I've just turned over some of the substrate and moved some of it so that I could make a little tent-like structure with a couple of pieces of bog wood so that the Ram can hide in it. After disturbing the substrate in this way he went absolutely crazy, rubbing himself on leaves/substrate etc.

Do any dwarf cichlid keepers find that these types of fish are easily irritated by solid objects making contact with their body? (objects really small and which are primarily detritus).
 
I noticed when I looked it up on the CaribSea site it says the Torpedo Beach is not burrower friendly. This is only a guess, but maybe the sand is too sharp for your ram?
 
I noticed when I looked it up on the CaribSea site it says the Torpedo Beach is not burrower friendly. This is only a guess, but maybe the sand is too sharp for your ram?
You may be right.

I have taken a picture of my German Blue Ram; would you say the part of the picture that I've applied a ring to shows agitated scales/skin from possible rubbing?

Picture:

ramfu.jpg


What alternative substrate could I exchange my sand with and what's a good way to go about removing the unwanted substrate in a tank full of water and fish? I was thinking that making the layer of sand less thick and applying some smooth pebbles on top of the sand would be a good idea.

Any ideas if removing substrate removes a reasonable amount of beneficial bacteria (mainly found in the filter)?

Thanks,

Mark.
 
The flashing you are seeing from you fish could be a sign of dominance. Since most cichlids like to be on the bottom this is where they will display. It could also be a sign of external parasite. Fish will scratch to get them off. I would say its most likley a display. If the sand is coral sand it can raise the ph. Rams like acidic water and soft water. Your coral sand is probably driving the ph up. But that depends on your KH and GH values as well as the ph from the tap.

Getting rid of the sand is easy. Just get a bucket and a hose and siphon the sand out. If you wnat to stick with sand you can use playsand or even pool filter sand. I'm not sure if they sell that in Europe. Boith are ph nuetral. Dont worry about losing any abacteria, they isnt a lot in the sand anyway. Its mostly in the filters.
 
The flashing you are seeing from you fish could be a sign of dominance. Since most cichlids like to be on the bottom this is where they will display. It could also be a sign of external parasite. Fish will scratch to get them off. I would say its most likley a display. If the sand is coral sand it can raise the ph. Rams like acidic water and soft water. Your coral sand is probably driving the ph up. But that depends on your KH and GH values as well as the ph from the tap.

Getting rid of the sand is easy. Just get a bucket and a hose and siphon the sand out. If you wnat to stick with sand you can use playsand or even pool filter sand. I'm not sure if they sell that in Europe. Boith are ph nuetral. Dont worry about losing any abacteria, they isnt a lot in the sand anyway. Its mostly in the filters.
Hi, thanks for the reply.

I'd like to reemphasise that I was questioning whether or not my substrate is coral sand or not. The information I've received suggests it isn't so it shouldn't be raising the PH etc. However, if someone happens to use this substrate I was hoping they would give share their experiences of using it to see if there is a trend whereby the PH rises when it is used has the substrate.

From experience, more than one fish with rub themselves if it's a parasite; in the cases of parasites I've dealt with anyway (termatodes, and some crustaceans). I've pretty much ruled out the rubbing as being caused by a parasite.

Any suggestions for a good and safe pebble substrate? I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.
 
I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.

Why not? Most people on here who have sand substrate use it...it just needs a thorough wash first (quarter fill a bucket and fill then overflow water from a hose into it giving it a good stir whilst doing it)...if you want to use something alternative to play sand however then pool filter sand is a great substrate, it is silica sand and will have no sharp edges etc. If you contact a local swimming pool stockist you'll find some...it comes in dark or light shades. To be honest through using Argos / B&Q / Homebase play sand etc is just fine

If you want to use gravel then a fine pea gravel is what you want...

In either case I wouldn't waste money on "aquarium" substrates....you'll be paying a good deal more for the same thing that has been pre-washed for you (when you ought to wash it anyway)
 
I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.

Why not? Most people on here who have sand substrate use it...it just needs a thorough wash first (quarter fill a bucket and fill then overflow water from a hose into it giving it a good stir whilst doing it)...if you want to use something alternative to play sand however then pool filter sand is a great substrate, it is silica sand and will have no sharp edges etc. If you contact a local swimming pool stockist you'll find some...it comes in dark or light shades. To be honest through using Argos / B&Q / Homebase play sand etc is just fine

If you want to use gravel then a fine pea gravel is what you want...

In either case I wouldn't waste money on "aquarium" substrates....you'll be paying a good deal more for the same thing that has been pre-washed for you (when you ought to wash it anyway)

It just doesn't seem right to be used in the aquarium; whether it is or not is a separate issue. I'd rather buy something that is specifically sold as a form of aquatic product. In my opinion, if people don't do this then they run the risk of putting something unsuitable into the tank. According to consumer law, sellers are not obliged to mention if play sand has substances in it that are unsuitable for use with aquatic life has play sands' traditional purpose is used in sand pits where it won't come into contact with fish. You'd have to specifically ask the seller, before the sale, if it's suitable for use in aquariums containing fish in order to get a legally enforceable reimbursement if it's unsuitable or not 'fit for that purpose' because it has harmed the fish. Employees of Argos are not going to know the answer to that question as they are only concerned about completing the sale.

I have ordered some pea gravel from http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110540021981&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT where it is described as 'Aquarium substrate' and mentions 'fish' in the title. That way, if it poisons the fish I'll be entitled to a refund of the product and compensation for the cost of the fish should they die. This is because i've paid money for something that is supposed to be safe with fish, if unsafe for use with fish, the seller has breached the part of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' which concerns 'fitness for purpose'.
 
I see where you are coming from and if you want that added security of it being a product for aquariums then that's your choice....however 1) try to argue a fish death is due to the substrate you purchased rather than natural causes and 2) if play sand is washed it will be fine, and has been for lots and lots of people :)

This is a good article on the matter: http://www.cichlid-f...ticles/sand.php

Whatever you feel secure with for you and your fish is important though, I just don't want people to think using play sand is wrong 'cause it isn't
good.gif
 
I have my German blue rams in caribSea aragonite Substrate, and have no issues with them. Actually at night I've seen them sleep on it with my Cory's. The only advice I have is you should check your GH and KH values in your tank vs your Tap water. If there is a huge difference then that could cause flashing in your fishes. I usually add Seachem equilibrium to my water during changes to make up for the difference. Second thing I would check is rub the substrate in your fingers....If its uncomfortable then it could be too sharp. But I completely agree with flashing, usually its small parasites or it happens after big water changes with varied GH/KH difference.
Here is a pic of my little guys ( love them to death)
f9cb9358.jpg

f8aa1130.jpg
 
I have my German blue rams in caribSea aragonite Substrate, and have no issues with them. Actually at night I've seen them sleep on it with my Cory's. The only advice I have is you should check your GH and KH values in your tank vs your Tap water. If there is a huge difference then that could cause flashing in your fishes. I usually add Seachem equilibrium to my water during changes to make up for the difference. Second thing I would check is rub the substrate in your fingers....If its uncomfortable then it could be too sharp. But I completely agree with flashing, usually its small parasites or it happens after big water changes with varied GH/KH difference.
Here is a pic of my little guys ( love them to death)
f9cb9358.jpg

f8aa1130.jpg

My GBR does sleep on the substrate as well, so sometimes he won't have any issues with it at all. But when he's close to the substrate, 70% of the time he will rub the underside of his mouth, sometimes very frantickly as though he's in pain. In the past, I've turned the tank lights off early because he seems to not rub himself at all when in 'sleep mode'. I do what I can to reduce his stress levels but I can't put an end to the source of stress because I still don't know what the source is.

-I've pondered that it could be the substrate, but sometimes he will not show irritation towards it, and won't be irritated at all when the lights are off because he goes to sleep directly on it.

-He is most irritated by something near the substrate or the substrate itself when I move it with my hands to plant something etc. So I've asked myself if GBR's dislike pieces of very small detritus that may come into contact with them if the substrate is disturbed; no one seems to know the answer to this.

I have not thought of KH or GH being the issue. I believe that my KH level is 5dH whereas the GH level is almost double this. Would this be the most probably cause of the GBR's irritation do you think? What does that Seachem product you use aim to do and is it good at achieving it?
 
I use equilibrium myself ( more sided to planted tanks) but if you don't have any plants you can use replenish. Here is a read out of what it does and how much GH it raises with 5ml/ per 10 Gallon water.
Usually I put in about 10ml as that is what I'm off by to balance my water change with my tank water.

Replenish™ is a proprietary blend of salts designed to replenish physiologically relevant minerals that are removed by reverse osmosis or deionizing filtration. Replenish™ restores General Hardness (GH) using a balanced blend of both “soft” (sodium, potassium) and “hard” (calcium, magnesium) salts. Restoration of mineral content is essential since a complete lack of minerals will result in osmotic stress in those species whose osmoregulation systems are adapted to a mineralized environment. Severe osmotic stress can result in osmotic shock which will lead to rapid death.
Occurs when fish are kept in water with inadequate mineral levels (too high or too low). Osmotic stress affects more seriously fish whose natural habitat is rich in minerals and who are kept in an aquarium with a low mineral level, as osmotic gradients (difference) between the internal fluids of the fish and its surrounding environment (water) increase. Such fish have a less effective osmoregulation than those who are physiologically adapted to water with a low mineral level. That is why they are not able to cope with overloading of osmoregulation.

Osmotic shock can be a result of a breakdown in osmoregulation due to inappropriate chemical composition of the water. It can also be caused by increased permeability of the skin resulting from a disease or trauma. Osmoregulation enables fish to maintain the proper balance of salt and water in the body, which is necessary to create optimal conditions for various physiological and biochemical processes. In all fish species osmoregulation developed in a way that enabled them to maintain the proper balance of salt and water in the water with chemical composition found in their natural habitat. If osmoregulation is disturbed due to adverse conditions (osmotic stress) or a sudden change in the chemical composition of water (osmotic shock), fish might not be able to physiologically cope wih it.
Chronic osmotic stress can eventually result in fish’s death and osmotic shock can cause death very quickly.

DIRECTIONS: Add 5 mL (1 capful) Replenish™ to 40 L (10 US Gallons) to raise GH by 1 meq/L (2.8 dGH). Recommended restoration level into DI or RO water is 1-2 meq/L which is 5 mL per each 20-40 L (5-10 US gallons).
 
I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.

Why not? Most people on here who have sand substrate use it...it just needs a thorough wash first (quarter fill a bucket and fill then overflow water from a hose into it giving it a good stir whilst doing it)...if you want to use something alternative to play sand however then pool filter sand is a great substrate, it is silica sand and will have no sharp edges etc. If you contact a local swimming pool stockist you'll find some...it comes in dark or light shades. To be honest through using Argos / B&Q / Homebase play sand etc is just fine

If you want to use gravel then a fine pea gravel is what you want...

In either case I wouldn't waste money on "aquarium" substrates....you'll be paying a good deal more for the same thing that has been pre-washed for you (when you ought to wash it anyway)

It just doesn't seem right to be used in the aquarium; whether it is or not is a separate issue. I'd rather buy something that is specifically sold as a form of aquatic product. In my opinion, if people don't do this then they run the risk of putting something unsuitable into the tank. According to consumer law, sellers are not obliged to mention if play sand has substances in it that are unsuitable for use with aquatic life has play sands' traditional purpose is used in sand pits where it won't come into contact with fish. You'd have to specifically ask the seller, before the sale, if it's suitable for use in aquariums containing fish in order to get a legally enforceable reimbursement if it's unsuitable or not 'fit for that purpose' because it has harmed the fish. Employees of Argos are not going to know the answer to that question as they are only concerned about completing the sale.

I have ordered some pea gravel from http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT where it is described as 'Aquarium substrate' and mentions 'fish' in the title. That way, if it poisons the fish I'll be entitled to a refund of the product and compensation for the cost of the fish should they die. This is because i've paid money for something that is supposed to be safe with fish, if unsafe for use with fish, the seller has breached the part of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' which concerns 'fitness for purpose'.

ahha. i see. you feel better if the stuff you buy has a fish on it. or, to put it another way, looking for somebody (else) to blame when thing go wrong.

first off you wouldn't have a 'cat in hells' chance of proving Play Sand ever caused any problems. the simple fact so many use it, precludes that. and you would have no chance of proving otherwise, via science.
secondly, do you really think you are safer buying off of Ebay? your joking right? ( no really you must be!)

whatever problems you, have/perceive, are not connected to substrate. personally, i think you need to understand this first. looking in the wrong place, never got a problem solved.
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.

Why not? Most people on here who have sand substrate use it...it just needs a thorough wash first (quarter fill a bucket and fill then overflow water from a hose into it giving it a good stir whilst doing it)...if you want to use something alternative to play sand however then pool filter sand is a great substrate, it is silica sand and will have no sharp edges etc. If you contact a local swimming pool stockist you'll find some...it comes in dark or light shades. To be honest through using Argos / B&Q / Homebase play sand etc is just fine

If you want to use gravel then a fine pea gravel is what you want...

In either case I wouldn't waste money on "aquarium" substrates....you'll be paying a good deal more for the same thing that has been pre-washed for you (when you ought to wash it anyway)

It just doesn't seem right to be used in the aquarium; whether it is or not is a separate issue. I'd rather buy something that is specifically sold as a form of aquatic product. In my opinion, if people don't do this then they run the risk of putting something unsuitable into the tank. According to consumer law, sellers are not obliged to mention if play sand has substances in it that are unsuitable for use with aquatic life has play sands' traditional purpose is used in sand pits where it won't come into contact with fish. You'd have to specifically ask the seller, before the sale, if it's suitable for use in aquariums containing fish in order to get a legally enforceable reimbursement if it's unsuitable or not 'fit for that purpose' because it has harmed the fish. Employees of Argos are not going to know the answer to that question as they are only concerned about completing the sale.

I have ordered some pea gravel from http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT where it is described as 'Aquarium substrate' and mentions 'fish' in the title. That way, if it poisons the fish I'll be entitled to a refund of the product and compensation for the cost of the fish should they die. This is because i've paid money for something that is supposed to be safe with fish, if unsafe for use with fish, the seller has breached the part of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' which concerns 'fitness for purpose'.

ahha. i see. you feel better if the stuff you buy has a fish on it. or, to put it another way, looking for somebody (else) to blame when thing go wrong.

first off you wouldn't have a 'cat in hells' chance of proving Play Sand ever caused any problems. the simple fact so many use it, precludes that. and you would have no chance of proving otherwise, via science.
secondly, do you really think you are safer buying off of Ebay? your joking right? ( no really you must be!)

whatever problems you, have/perceive, are not connected to substrate. personally, i think you need to understand this first. looking in the wrong place, never got a problem solved.

You've completely misunderstood my post I'm afraid, and at the same time you've implied i'm an idiot (in your last paragraph)

I never said I'd be looking to prove that play sand is harmful to fish; I only said what you'd have to do in theory and described how troublesome it would be. I was stating that it's better to rely on substrates that specifically say they are safe to use alongside fish. Such commentary on the substrate becomes a term of the contract, and if/when breached, give the consumer a legally enforceable right to a refund and compensation.

to put it another way, looking for somebody (else) to blame when thing go wrong.

If I buy a substrate that expressly states it's safe with fish and then it kills the fish, the seller is the sole person responsible for those deaths due to providing incorrect or careless information. The person who manufacturers a product is the only person educated enough to know it's composition back to front; why on earth would it be MY fault if their product caused harm? I have a feeling you've just got out of the wrong side of the bed mate. I suggest you go to the executive in London and tell them to modify the law so that victims of breach of contract can't retreive compensation for anothers carelessness.


Some substrates may indicate that they are suitable for fish (implying all fish are safe around it), but if it contained traces of limestone (which induces alkaline water) and the fish I kept thrived in acidic water there would undoubtedly be issues, possibly death resulting from installing such substrate in a tank containing these sorts of fish.

Due to play sand having many uses, most commonly not associated with aquarium use, I'd have MORE problems proving that the seller is blameworthy because in most contracts the buyer does not expressly state (prior to contract) the purpose for which they will use the product. Where the buyer doesn't state anything the presumption is that it will be used for it's most common purpose (building sand castles etc).

I think you ought to drop the attitude problem you have AND learn how to read.

whatever problems you, have/perceive, are not connected to substrate. personally, i think you need to understand this first. looking in the wrong place, never got a problem solved.

So are you going to tell me what the problem is then or is it to be kept sacred?
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
I use equilibrium myself ( more sided to planted tanks) but if you don't have any plants you can use replenish. Here is a read out of what it does and how much GH it raises with 5ml/ per 10 Gallon water.
Usually I put in about 10ml as that is what I'm off by to balance my water change with my tank water.

Replenish™ is a proprietary blend of salts designed to replenish physiologically relevant minerals that are removed by reverse osmosis or deionizing filtration. Replenish™ restores General Hardness (GH) using a balanced blend of both “soft” (sodium, potassium) and “hard” (calcium, magnesium) salts. Restoration of mineral content is essential since a complete lack of minerals will result in osmotic stress in those species whose osmoregulation systems are adapted to a mineralized environment. Severe osmotic stress can result in osmotic shock which will lead to rapid death.
Occurs when fish are kept in water with inadequate mineral levels (too high or too low). Osmotic stress affects more seriously fish whose natural habitat is rich in minerals and who are kept in an aquarium with a low mineral level, as osmotic gradients (difference) between the internal fluids of the fish and its surrounding environment (water) increase. Such fish have a less effective osmoregulation than those who are physiologically adapted to water with a low mineral level. That is why they are not able to cope with overloading of osmoregulation.

Osmotic shock can be a result of a breakdown in osmoregulation due to inappropriate chemical composition of the water. It can also be caused by increased permeability of the skin resulting from a disease or trauma. Osmoregulation enables fish to maintain the proper balance of salt and water in the body, which is necessary to create optimal conditions for various physiological and biochemical processes. In all fish species osmoregulation developed in a way that enabled them to maintain the proper balance of salt and water in the water with chemical composition found in their natural habitat. If osmoregulation is disturbed due to adverse conditions (osmotic stress) or a sudden change in the chemical composition of water (osmotic shock), fish might not be able to physiologically cope wih it.
Chronic osmotic stress can eventually result in fish’s death and osmotic shock can cause death very quickly.

DIRECTIONS: Add 5 mL (1 capful) Replenish™ to 40 L (10 US Gallons) to raise GH by 1 meq/L (2.8 dGH). Recommended restoration level into DI or RO water is 1-2 meq/L which is 5 mL per each 20-40 L (5-10 US gallons).

My GH level is around 10dH as mentioned before so it would be highly dangerous for me to increase that any further. I'd be looking at highering my KH level ONLY as I believe you said that that the higher the difference between the GH and the KH, the more likely the fish will flick/rub. Well, as my KH is quite low (4-5 dH), KH would be a more safe thing to manipulate.

Where is your evidence that a larger differentiation between levels of KH and levels of GH can cause stress?

Thanks,

Mark.
 
I'm not keen on buying play sand to be honest.

Why not? Most people on here who have sand substrate use it...it just needs a thorough wash first (quarter fill a bucket and fill then overflow water from a hose into it giving it a good stir whilst doing it)...if you want to use something alternative to play sand however then pool filter sand is a great substrate, it is silica sand and will have no sharp edges etc. If you contact a local swimming pool stockist you'll find some...it comes in dark or light shades. To be honest through using Argos / B&Q / Homebase play sand etc is just fine

If you want to use gravel then a fine pea gravel is what you want...

In either case I wouldn't waste money on "aquarium" substrates....you'll be paying a good deal more for the same thing that has been pre-washed for you (when you ought to wash it anyway)

It just doesn't seem right to be used in the aquarium; whether it is or not is a separate issue. I'd rather buy something that is specifically sold as a form of aquatic product. In my opinion, if people don't do this then they run the risk of putting something unsuitable into the tank. According to consumer law, sellers are not obliged to mention if play sand has substances in it that are unsuitable for use with aquatic life has play sands' traditional purpose is used in sand pits where it won't come into contact with fish. You'd have to specifically ask the seller, before the sale, if it's suitable for use in aquariums containing fish in order to get a legally enforceable reimbursement if it's unsuitable or not 'fit for that purpose' because it has harmed the fish. Employees of Argos are not going to know the answer to that question as they are only concerned about completing the sale.

I have ordered some pea gravel from http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT where it is described as 'Aquarium substrate' and mentions 'fish' in the title. That way, if it poisons the fish I'll be entitled to a refund of the product and compensation for the cost of the fish should they die. This is because i've paid money for something that is supposed to be safe with fish, if unsafe for use with fish, the seller has breached the part of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' which concerns 'fitness for purpose'.

ahha. i see. you feel better if the stuff you buy has a fish on it. or, to put it another way, looking for somebody (else) to blame when thing go wrong.

first off you wouldn't have a 'cat in hells' chance of proving Play Sand ever caused any problems. the simple fact so many use it, precludes that. and you would have no chance of proving otherwise, via science.
secondly, do you really think you are safer buying off of Ebay? your joking right? ( no really you must be!)

whatever problems you, have/perceive, are not connected to substrate. personally, i think you need to understand this first. looking in the wrong place, never got a problem solved.

You've completely misunderstood my post I'm afraid, and at the same time you've implied i'm an idiot (in your last paragraph)

I never said I'd be looking to prove that play sand is harmful to fish; I only said what you'd have to do in theory and described how troublesome it would be. I was stating that it's better to rely on substrates that specifically say they are safe to use alongside fish. Such commentary on the substrate becomes a term of the contract, and if/when breached, give the consumer a legally enforceable right to a refund and compensation.

to put it another way, looking for somebody (else) to blame when thing go wrong.

If I buy a substrate that expressly states it's safe with fish and then it kills the fish, the seller is the sole person responsible for those deaths due to providing incorrect or careless information. The person who manufacturers a product is the only person educated enough to know it's composition back to front; why on earth would it be MY fault if their product caused harm? I have a feeling you've just got out of the wrong side of the bed mate. I suggest you go to the executive in London and tell them to modify the law so that victims of breach of contract can't retreive compensation for anothers carelessness.


Some substrates may indicate that they are suitable for fish (implying all fish are safe around it), but if it contained traces of limestone (which induces alkaline water) and the fish I kept thrived in acidic water there would undoubtedly be issues, possibly death resulting from installing such substrate in a tank containing these sorts of fish.

Due to play sand having many uses, most commonly not associated with aquarium use, I'd have MORE problems proving that the seller is blameworthy because in most contracts the buyer does not expressly state (prior to contract) the purpose for which they will use the product. Where the buyer doesn't state anything the presumption is that it will be used for it's most common purpose (building sand castles etc).

I think you ought to drop the attitude problem you have AND learn how to read.

whatever problems you, have/perceive, are not connected to substrate. personally, i think you need to understand this first. looking in the wrong place, never got a problem solved.

So are you going to tell me what the problem is then or is it to be kept sacred?

why should, all of a sudden, playsand become unsafe in an aquarium? you are allways looking for someone else to blame for problems. it playsand were, in any way unsafe, it would not be used by so many. you are fooling yourself if you think trying to get redress, though none will be needed, is gong to be easer if the stuff has fish on it.

PLAYSAND is totally, and utterly safe, so your argument is moot. you may feel better buying something with fish on. but making out things are safer that way, is utter tosh.

as for what your problem is? perhaps if you looked at things that, could be wrong, instead of blaming your substrate. to be fair i dont know your problem, perhaps BAD husbandry?

you seem to think that the experience of this forum members, regarding PlaySand, is worthless. but only so, if something goes wrong, you have somebody to blame. though trying to get redress will be impossible, whatever yo buy.

of course you will buy what you like. but don't try to reason (the un-reasonable), its because you want to. and has no reason, nor basis in science.

your suggestion that PlaySand is "unsafe" is both, unwarranted and unsubstantiated.
 
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